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Old 08-04-2012, 02:33 PM
 
7,238 posts, read 10,896,252 times
Reputation: 5583

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
I didn't say to send an application to 2 different places.
Here's what you said..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
Don't send it to the hiring manager INSTEAD of to HR. Send it to both.
Translation: Send your application and resume to BOTH the Hiring Manager AND Human Resources.

Maybe you didn't make your point clear enough.
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Old 08-04-2012, 02:39 PM
 
Location: here
24,839 posts, read 30,089,193 times
Reputation: 32406
Quote:
Originally Posted by LV702 View Post
Screw HR. Put your detective skills to work and send your resume with a brief note to the hiring manager.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 313Weather View Post
And then it'll get tossed in the garbage can because you circumvented the process.

You just can't win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
Don't send it to the hiring manager INSTEAD of to HR. Send it to both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 313Weather View Post
For the record, I'm NOT saying one can't be successful doing that.

However, more likely than not, it's going to blacklist you for the position because it'll be considered that you sent in two applications at once. In most small business, the Hiring Manager is the head of Human Resources, thus they're one in the same and you're sending your resume to both of them. In other organizations, chances are both departments will see your one application anyway (the Hiring Manager will see it to interview and select the candidates, HR will see it to filter the applicants and process your paperwork).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
I didn't say to send an application to 2 different places. Submit an application and whatever is requested, and send a resume and cover letter to the dept manager, if you can find out who it is. I also never said anything about small businesses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 313Weather View Post
Here's what you said..



Translation: Send your application and resume to BOTH the Hiring Manager AND Human Resources.

Maybe you didn't make your point clear enough.
"It" was referring to a resume not an application. You are the one who missed that part.
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Old 08-04-2012, 02:41 PM
 
7,238 posts, read 10,896,252 times
Reputation: 5583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
"It" was referring to a resume not an application. You are the one who missed that part.
It's common procedure to submit your resume with your application, or not provide a resume at all. Thus, I used "resume" (which in some cases, such as applying for jobs on Craigslist, is your appplication) and "application" interchangeably, a means in which you show interest for a position.

I'm not sure what your point is.
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Old 08-04-2012, 02:48 PM
 
Location: here
24,839 posts, read 30,089,193 times
Reputation: 32406
Quote:
Originally Posted by 313Weather View Post
It's common procedure to submit your resume with your application, or not provide a resume at all. Thus, I used "resume" (which in some cases, such as applying for jobs on Craigslist, is your appplication) and "application" interchangeably, a means in which you show interest for a position.

I'm not sure what your point is.
For the record I was hired about a month ago, and this is what I did:

Followed the instructions for applying for the job i.e. e-mailed a resume and an application to HR.

I found the department manager on Linkedin and sent an additional resume and cover letter to him directly. Not a 2nd application, a resume.

I sent 1 application, and 2 resumes.

A resume and an application are not the same thing. No one ever said to send in 2 applications. I don't know why you are fixated on that.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:04 PM
 
7,238 posts, read 10,896,252 times
Reputation: 5583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibbiekat View Post
For the record I was hired about a month ago, and this is what I did:

Followed the instructions for applying for the job i.e. e-mailed a resume and an application to HR.

I found the department manager on Linkedin and sent an additional resume and cover letter to him directly. Not a 2nd application, a resume.

I sent 1 application, and 2 resumes.

A resume and an application are not the same thing. No one ever said to send in 2 applications. I don't know why you are fixated on that.
1. Congrats on your job.

2. I didn't say a Resume and Application were the same thing. I said they each serve the same purpose, as a means for you to express interest for a position. That's not hard to understand either.

3. Your experience is not everyone's experience, in fact, it's probably the exception (thus, it's "useless advice", which is worse than "no advice"). Most places have processes and procedurese to things, including filling a position. This is because many HR departments and Hiring Managers are swamped with other work, and they don't need folks circumventing the process (by sending them your resume AGAIN after sending it once, because I imagine the first application and resume would have been seen by the Hiring Manager anyway when they were ready to select candidates) and distracting them from their other work. If someone tells you to apply for a position a cetain way, you better follow direction and do what they say.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:48 PM
 
Location: California
4,402 posts, read 11,610,417 times
Reputation: 3129
^^^^^Has WHAT exactly to do with the poor OP's question? You guys are fighting about the giving of advice that is not even on TOPIC.
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:15 PM
 
Location: here
24,839 posts, read 30,089,193 times
Reputation: 32406
Quote:
Originally Posted by 313Weather View Post
1. Congrats on your job.

2. I didn't say a Resume and Application were the same thing. I said they each serve the same purpose, as a means for you to express interest for a position. That's not hard to understand either.

3. Your experience is not everyone's experience, in fact, it's probably the exception (thus, it's "useless advice", which is worse than "no advice"). Most places have processes and procedurese to things, including filling a position. This is because many HR departments and Hiring Managers are swamped with other work, and they don't need folks circumventing the process (by sending them your resume AGAIN after sending it once, because I imagine the first application and resume would have been seen by the Hiring Manager anyway when they were ready to select candidates) and distracting them from their other work. If someone tells you to apply for a position a cetain way, you better follow direction and do what they say.
I'm done arguing. You said I said something I didn't. All I'm trying to do is clarify. You misunderstood what "it" referred to. That's all that happened.

And no, a resume is not always considered an application. Many places require both. Your experience is no more valid than mine.

OP, from what it sounds like, using key words in white font is probably not very worth while.
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Old 08-04-2012, 06:52 PM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 39,770,900 times
Reputation: 16146
Quote:
Originally Posted by 313Weather View Post
Theoretically, it's a "secret" for a reason.

If they told you the "secret", then their objective won't be achieved (which is having as few applications to sift through as possible). Besides that, the "talking heads" we deal with probably don't "rig" the systems, but their managers do (so even they probably don't know how the system eliminates applicants).

My point? Don't hold your breath for HR to chime in on this subject.

The only thing you will hear from a HR person is why you're such an evil individual.
I hope I never get as bitter as this.
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Old 08-04-2012, 06:54 PM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 39,770,900 times
Reputation: 16146
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
The best way to do this is to take him out to dinner or to the club prior to sending your resume.


Perhaps this works for an upper management position, but this would never fly in the companies I work for. You would have a lot of explaining to do.
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Old 08-04-2012, 09:21 PM
 
1,468 posts, read 1,712,369 times
Reputation: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
Perhaps this works for an upper management position, but this would never fly in the companies I work for. You would have a lot of explaining to do.
MTE, it's okay for a professional job or commission job. Otherwise, be prepared to be embarrassed. This is Sims style.
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