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Old 08-22-2012, 10:10 AM
 
5,191 posts, read 4,891,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
Obviously I can't. I do, however, offer to walk them to their car at the end of the interview so I can see how clean their car is.

Someone who takes pride in themselves keeps their houses/cars clean anyway.
But again, if someone works an extreme amout of overtime, they just don't have time to keep their car clean to your standard, no matter how much pride they have in themselves.

Quote:
Look - I already said that it isn't a fair system, but it is the system I have to live with. If I hire a single bad employee, it is extremely hard to fire them. I have to document months upon months of mistakes before I have a chance to fire someone, and then I risk being sued (regardless of whether they have a case or not). If I am sued by an employee for discrimination, even if it is complete BS and the lawsuit is thrown out, it can cost the company $25k in legal fees and generate a lot of bad press. It is much safer to stereotype before hiring than risk the pain of having to deal with a poor employee. It it were actually easy to fire someone, then I wouldn't make the assumptions that I do when hiring.
Again, your attitude may work in the current economy, where there are more qualified candidates then open positions, so you can afford to lose a good employee over something petty. But employers like you are going to have a rude awakening once the economy improves, and you can no longer afford to lose good employees over something petty.

Quote:
I often bring in outside consultants for a few months to get outside opinions, so I really don't care about that in terms of someone being a permanent member of the team. Having non-conforming opinions can be very helpful, but it can also bring down an entire business if those opinions are not handled the right way, so it is often safer to bring someone non-conforming in for a few months instead of bringing them in for good.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:13 AM
 
7,238 posts, read 10,897,588 times
Reputation: 5583
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq View Post
Obviously I can't. I do, however, offer to walk them to their car at the end of the interview so I can see how clean their car is.
What the heck does a person's car have to do with their PERSONAL hygiene and their capability of doing the job?

I just don't see the logic there...
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:13 AM
 
5,191 posts, read 4,891,208 times
Reputation: 3314
Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
Based on this response, I wouldn't hire you. You seem very argumentative. And no, I wouldn't see someone who sits in a hot tub at the end of the day as lazy.
Why do you say I am argumentative. The 2 points that I was trying to make in that post are:

1. It is never to your advantage to lie in an interview when asked a personality question. They will very easily find out if you lied, either in the interview, or when you are working. If you know nothing about skiing, but you try to act as if you do, you will likely sound like an idiot.

2. Just because an employer asks "do you ski" does not automatically mean that they want you to say yes. It could be a way to decide whether or not you are willing to work overtime on winter weekends. Virtually everyone will answer "yes" when asked if they are willing to work overtime, so they need other ways to determine that.

I am sorry if I came across as argumentative.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:15 AM
 
5,191 posts, read 4,891,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 313Weather View Post
What the heck does a person's car have to do with their PERSONAL hygiene and capability or doing the job?
That is exactly the point I am trying to make. HNSQ is going to lose a lot of good employees who don't fit into his mold for silly reasons. Again, it may work in this economy, but he's going to have a rude awakening once the economy improves.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:17 AM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,601,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
But again, if someone works an extreme amout of overtime, they just don't have time to keep their car clean to your standard, no matter how much pride they have in themselves.
I know several people who only work 40 hour weeks, yet their cars look like they must have rats nesting in them. I know others who work 60 hours a week and while the car might not looked professionally detailed, there's no McDonald's bags on the floor, dirty laundry strewn across the back seat, and film of something on the windows. I don't care if someone has a coat or sweater in the back seat and an empty coffee cup or soda can in the cup holder, but if I see someone's car that looks like a pack of three years old's have been living in it for a month, I'm not going to hire them.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:19 AM
 
7,238 posts, read 10,897,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
That is exactly the point I am trying to make. HNSQ is going to lose a lot of good employees who don't fit into his mold for silly reasons. Again, it may work in this economy, but he's going to have a rude awakening once the economy improves.
That's part of the reason the unemployment rate is still so high (beyond structural reasons due to poor government policies).

If the "employers" and "HR workers" on here are any indication, not even the lord Jesus Christ would land a job with the silly backward logic that's being utilized.

This is all new stuff too. Not even in past recessions did stuff like who likes to ski or how the applicant's car looked mattered.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:19 AM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,601,121 times
Reputation: 13019
Quote:
Originally Posted by 313Weather View Post
What the heck does a person's car have to do with their PERSONAL hygiene and their capability of doing the job?

I just don't see the logic there...
My personal experience has been that people who don't keep their cars reasonably tidy tend to have messy work areas and sloppy work habits, and in some cases, very poor personal hygiene.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:21 AM
 
9,856 posts, read 13,426,872 times
Reputation: 5453
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
But again, if someone works an extreme amout of overtime, they just don't have time to keep their car clean to your standard, no matter how much pride they have in themselves.
I agree with you, but those situations aren't the norm. For a few months I was at 90 hours/week, and I still kept my car/house from looking like rats lived in it.

Quote:
Again, your attitude may work in the current economy, where there are more qualified candidates then open positions, so you can afford to lose a good employee over something petty. But employers like you are going to have a rude awakening once the economy improves, and you can no longer afford to lose good employees over something petty.
No, employers like me will adapt to a changing economy that favors employees more. I will pay more, offer more benefits, etc. just like you (and me) as employees have to adapt to the current economy. It is supply and demand. Obviously I would pay more if it was tough to find someone for the job. Also, the things I described are hardly 'petty'

Quote:
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that.
How much personal experience do you have with this?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 313Weather View Post
What the heck does a person's car have to do with their PERSONAL hygiene and their capability of doing the job?

I just don't see the logic there...
How a person treats their possessions is an indicator of their personality. If a person doesn't put in the effort to take care of their own personal belongings, why should I trust them to take care of duties on the job?

Obviously that is making an assumption, but assumptions like that are necessary when hiring without really knowing a person.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:22 AM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,601,121 times
Reputation: 13019
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
Why do you say I am argumentative. The 2 points that I was trying to make in that post are:

1. It is never to your advantage to lie in an interview when asked a personality question. They will very easily find out if you lied, either in the interview, or when you are working. If you know nothing about skiing, but you try to act as if you do, you will likely sound like an idiot.

2. Just because an employer asks "do you ski" does not automatically mean that they want you to say yes. It could be a way to decide whether or not you are willing to work overtime on winter weekends. Virtually everyone will answer "yes" when asked if they are willing to work overtime, so they need other ways to determine that.

I am sorry if I came across as argumentative.
I don't think you have to lie, but I do think you need to offer something that would show you'd fit in. My example was just a suggestion of what could be said.

It's not me you need to prove that you aren't argumentative to, it's the people you are interviewing with. Like I said, that's how you came across to me, if you respond the same way during an interview...
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:23 AM
 
5,191 posts, read 4,891,208 times
Reputation: 3314
Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
I know several people who only work 40 hour weeks, yet their cars look like they must have rats nesting in them. I know others who work 60 hours a week and while the car might not looked professionally detailed, there's no McDonald's bags on the floor, dirty laundry strewn across the back seat, and film of something on the windows. I don't care if someone has a coat or sweater in the back seat and an empty coffee cup or soda can in the cup holder, but if I see someone's car that looks like a pack of three years old's have been living in it for a month, I'm not going to hire them.
I do not leave McDonald's bags or dirty laundry in my car, nor do I have a "film of something" (whatever that means) on my windows. But I also do not generally bother to get my car washed, especially since it can rain at any time. To me, getting a car washed (unless it is really, really dirty) is a waste of time and/or money. Other thing in life are more important to me.
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