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Old 08-24-2012, 10:47 AM
 
5,191 posts, read 4,895,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
Considering that most jobs I hire for are customer facing and often require entertaining customers including driving them to a meal, yes, it is my business. No, I'm not going to hire you if your car has a family of mice living in the back seat. Yes I would be crazy if I did.
I can understand that.

Quote:
Oh, and while I would never not hire someone because they drove a compact or midsize regular car (like a Ford or Toyota) instead of a luxury vehicle or SUV, I wouldn't hire them if they were driving a 15 year old rusted out piece of crap with a coat hanger holding the bumper on, even if it was clean. If it were 15 years old, in great condition, and clean, no problem.
But the only reason why they would be driving a "15 year old rusted piece of crap" is because they can't afford anything better, and need a job. Honestly, given the attitude that you portray here, they would have to be extremely desperate to want to work for you.

If the issue is that you don't want them driving cusomter in a "15 year old rusted piece of crap" (understandable) then maybe you may need to provide a company car.
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Old 08-24-2012, 10:54 AM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,620,883 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
Why is someone "some jerk" or "toxic" just because they have never been skiing, or prefer using their free time to relax rather than to train for a marathon?
I didn't say they were. But if the entire office is a bunch of jocks and someone who thinks exercise means pushing the TV remote, they probably aren't going to fit in and an employer should think twice about hiring them.

That said, I don't want an office with nothing but jocks, remote pushers, or any other single group. I want a diversified workforce. But if an applicant rubs me the wrong way, I'm not going to hire them, regardless of how skilled they might be. If they rub me the wrong way, they'll likely rub some of their coworkers the wrong way, and the last thing I need is people unhappy and lower morale because of one person who can't play nice or fit in with others due to personality conflicts.

And if my company made surf boards, I wouldn't hire a non-surfer. I'd want my employees to have a knowledge of what they were making and selling. If I ran a chophouse, I wouldn't hire a vegan who couldn't have a firsthand conversation with the customers about the texture of the different cuts of meat or how creamy the truffled mac & cheese was.

I also wouldn't hire an introvert who answered interview questions in a monotone and with as few words as possible for a customer service position and I wouldn't hire an extrovert who thrived on working with others as part of a team with a lot of banter and collaboration for a data entry position. In both cases the person wouldn't fit in and would be miserable. I don't want a miserable person working for me simply because it's the only job they could find. Just about the time they get up to speed, they'll quit because they found a job doing what they actually wanted to do.
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Old 08-24-2012, 11:04 AM
 
5,191 posts, read 4,895,327 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
That said, I don't want an office with nothing but jocks, remote pushers, or any other single group. I want a diversified workforce.
Which is EXACTLY the point I have been trying to make. Even if most people in the office are skiiers, and you want to primarily hire skiiers, you need to hire a few non-skiiers too.

Quote:
And if my company made surf boards, I wouldn't hire a non-surfer. I'd want my employees to have a knowledge of what they were making and selling. If I ran a chophouse, I wouldn't hire a vegan who couldn't have a firsthand conversation with the customers about the texture of the different cuts of meat or how creamy the truffled mac & cheese was.
I agree with you there. But my point is that my company has nothing to do with skiing.

Quote:
I also wouldn't hire an introvert who answered interview questions in a monotone and with as few words as possible for a customer service position and I wouldn't hire an extrovert who thrived on working with others as part of a team with a lot of banter and collaboration for a data entry position. In both cases the person wouldn't fit in and would be miserable. I don't want a miserable person working for me simply because it's the only job they could find. Just about the time they get up to speed, they'll quit because they found a job doing what they actually wanted to do.
That sounds reasonable.
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Old 08-24-2012, 11:10 AM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,620,883 times
Reputation: 13019
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitsguy2001 View Post
I can understand that.



But the only reason why they would be driving a "15 year old rusted piece of crap" is because they can't afford anything better, and need a job. Honestly, given the attitude that you portray here, they would have to be extremely desperate to want to work for you.

If the issue is that you don't want them driving cusomter in a "15 year old rusted piece of crap" (understandable) then maybe you may need to provide a company car.
My son drives a 12 year old car. It's not rusted, there's no body damage outside of a few minor dings and scratches from grocery carts, it's clean and presentable. It's not so much the age, but the condition. It's not like the economy has been bad for 15 years.

If someone had a decent car five years ago, there's no reason it shouldn't still be decent now if it were actually cared for. Washed now and then, vacuumed, windows cleaned, maybe even a hint of wax applied a couple times a year.

I have yet to have an applicant not be driving an acceptable car when they interview with me. Clean and in good repair is all I ask. We've talked about company cars, but our employees have all said they prefer to use their own for local and regional customers visits so they can get the mileage reimbursement from us.
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Old 08-24-2012, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Out West
22,764 posts, read 16,845,978 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
Considering that most jobs I hire for are customer facing and often require entertaining customers including driving them to a meal, yes, it is my business. No, I'm not going to hire you if your car has a family of mice living in the back seat. Yes I would be crazy if I did. Oh, and while I would never not hire someone because they drove a compact or midsize regular car (like a Ford or Toyota) instead of a luxury vehicle or SUV, I wouldn't hire them if they were driving a 15 year old rusted out piece of crap with a coat hanger holding the bumper on, even if it was clean. If it were 15 years old, in great condition, and clean, no problem.
My car is not your business.

Let me say it again, MY car. Is NOT. Your business. PERIOD!

If you were to even ASK me about my car or hint about it, or even TRY to look at it when I go back to it after an interview, I would wheel around and tell you to take your job and shove it. I would never work for someone as shallow and empty headed as one who would judge HOW I WORK based on my car.
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Old 08-24-2012, 04:34 PM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,620,883 times
Reputation: 13019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
My car is not your business.

Let me say it again, MY car. Is NOT. Your business. PERIOD!

If you were to even ASK me about my car or hint about it, or even TRY to look at it when I go back to it after an interview, I would wheel around and tell you to take your job and shove it. I would never work for someone as shallow and empty headed as one who would judge HOW I WORK based on my car.
The minute something you do outside of work affects the way my customers look at you--who are an extension of my business--you better believe it becomes my business.

I can guarantee that no employer is going to hire an outside sales person who keeps their car like a rats nest. I have a number of friends and colleagues that hire for sales and business development positions, and the rules are the same across the board. Keep your car looking decent or you're not getting hired here.

And by the way, don't bother to say then they should provide a company car, because when you get one of those, it comes with conditions that require regular cleaning inside and out.
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Old 08-24-2012, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Out West
22,764 posts, read 16,845,978 times
Reputation: 26309
Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
The minute something you do outside of work affects the way my customers look at you--who are an extension of my business--you better believe it becomes my business.

I can guarantee that no employer is going to hire an outside sales person who keeps their car like a rats nest. I have a number of friends and colleagues that hire for sales and business development positions, and the rules are the same across the board. Keep your car looking decent or you're not getting hired here.

And by the way, don't bother to say then they should provide a company car, because when you get one of those, it comes with conditions that require regular cleaning inside and out.
Get a company car. That is the answer. What someone personally owns is not your business. Cleaning the company car is part of the job requirement. Cleaning my personal car is none of your business.
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Old 08-24-2012, 05:14 PM
 
26,590 posts, read 54,620,883 times
Reputation: 13019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Get a company car. That is the answer. What someone personally owns is not your business. Cleaning the company car is part of the job requirement. Cleaning my personal car is none of your business.
We don't provide company cars, no reason to. I wish you well in your career.
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Old 08-24-2012, 05:52 PM
 
107 posts, read 346,712 times
Reputation: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
They were/are also geniuses with a vision. Very different from the average worker bee looking to push papers in a cube.



Don't dis the glue in the organization--and it's not the person at the top. And for the record, I'd hire the guy with the experience for that job. A good receptionist or career admin is worth their weight in gold.



While their skill is important, I've fired doctors who were jerks. I have a choice in my healthcare and exercise that choice. (Yet another reason I don't want socialized medicine, I want to choose my practitioner.) And I don't want to work with a jerk or someone who doesn't fit in with the other employees. They bring down morale or in some cases, create a toxic environment. You lose other valuable employees when you introduce a toxic employee into the workplace.



Many people spend more time with the people they work with than anyone else. And just like suboptimal talent can bring down an organization, so can an employee who doesn't get along with peers. I'd rather hire someone who is a 9 with a great personality than a 10 who is a douche.
"They were/are also geniuses with a vision. Very different from the average worker bee looking to push papers in a cube."

Weak. There are numerous problems with that view. Let's look at some.

Geniuses don't walk around the Earth with a label on their head. While many of the people I mentioned started their own company, they still needed some sort of acceptance from society to get there. Zuckerberg would not have created facebook if he never went to harvard and if harvard admissions committee valued personality like you do, a lot of talent would be wasted. Jack Welch one of the greatest CEOs ever and arguably the greatest GE CEO of all time was infamously named Neutron Jack. He was a bona fide heartless ahole in all material respects. He did not walk into the GE's door one day and say "I am going to be your CEO", he moved up through the ranks. Now in order for him to do that, somebody had to give him a job and continue to promote him. You don't seriously believe he was a sweetheart all these years before being CEO?? GE grew massively in value under him. Thankfully, GE emphasized talent over personality there.

It is would also be problematic to have an organization of people who wanted a warm and fuzzy atmosphere headed by a driven ahole CEO. If apple employes wanted to have a positive atmosphere above all, they would have serious issues with a demanding CEO. Someone like Steve Jobs was better for them because he made the company way richer and their careers way more secure than someone who is nice but less competent could.

Fact of the matter is, you need talent in all aspects of the organizations. The very best store managers for a company like walmart are not the ones who are friends with employees but the ones who establish clear standards of performance and drive that performance.

"While their skill is important, I've fired doctors who were jerks. I have a choice in my healthcare and exercise that choice. (Yet another reason I don't want socialized medicine, I want to choose my practitioner.) And I don't want to work with a jerk or someone who doesn't fit in with the other employees. They bring down morale or in some cases, create a toxic environment. You lose other valuable employees when you introduce a toxic employee into the workplace."

If you life is on the line you need the best. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. If your money on the line you need the best. If your freedom is on the line you need the best, etc. Employees need to have the emotional maturity to realize workplace is not their personal life and emotional enrichment is not the priority. Professionalism goes a long way.

Last edited by UnemployedRage; 08-24-2012 at 06:20 PM..
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Old 08-25-2012, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Out West
22,764 posts, read 16,845,978 times
Reputation: 26309
Quote:
Originally Posted by annerk View Post
We don't provide company cars, no reason to. I wish you well in your career.
I'm doing quite well, thank you, older car, too! Imagine that.
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