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Old 12-22-2012, 12:55 PM
 
6,473 posts, read 10,401,310 times
Reputation: 6347

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulone View Post
If that were to happen, it would mean they are ready to ADMIT being liars. That is why they are not held to the same standard. People like to think that CEO's and Corporations do not lie when in fact they do on MANY levels. Until people can stop sweeping things under the rug, like many on here do, then we are stuck with those that don't hold CEO's and corporations to the same standard and they continue to make excuses as to why CEO's and Corporations can lie, but their applicants dare not. You have seen them in this thread: "Two wrongs don't make a right" or "Just because the CEO's lie don't mean you should" etc...

They have a hard time discussing any kind of wrong that a company does, but instead lashes out at the applicants.
I knew a woman that got fired from a law firm some years ago whom was set up by management.

One of the attorneys she worked for didn't like her and wanted her gone. Of course, HR and her supervisor co-signed and began the "set up". Every email her attorney sent her was blind copied to HR and her supervisor. She would make grammatical errors in the email and he would complain about this to the superiors. Mind you, she proofread his documents with complete ease, so he couldn't say she was sloppy with the final product. She of course didn't know what they were doing, because she believed she and her attorney were fine. He smiled in her face and made it seem like everything was good.

They called her in the office and put her through "guaranteed to fail" requirements to get "back on track" as found in the book "CORPORATE CONFIDENTIAL". She failed, they offered her a great severance, said she would be guaranteed a good reference and not be turned down for unemployment. She took it. She eventually found a job again through a "hook up", so it turned out okay for her, but as we all know it could have been much worse.

Again, everyone needs to look out for THEMSELVES.
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:57 PM
 
Location: The City That Never Sleeps
2,043 posts, read 4,859,011 times
Reputation: 3336
I worked for attorneys for only 6 years of my life. I found them to be the scummiest, dirtiest, least ethical to their employees. They make car salesmen look like altar boys. Lawyers, particularly Big Law ones, are on the same level as stock traders. They scavenge the people with money. I have seen worse and certainly heard of worse happening than what you described.
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Old 12-22-2012, 04:54 PM
 
6,876 posts, read 7,273,507 times
Reputation: 9785
Believe it or not I've actually read more than half the 41 pages of this thread...andI I'm fascinated and almost speechless.
There's the issue/dilemma of lying itself, then there's WHY people do it, then there's, what people lie about.

1) Clearly, IF, IF you're going to lie...lie about something that could never be PROVEN fasle...duh! To lie about something you KNOW you could get caught on is just stupid. True, some people never get caught. If that's the risk you're willing to take, that's the individual's choice.

Lying about your SKILLS is not as risky as lying about a fact that can be researched. Now if you're asked how you got the skill, or a project you did, you need to be able to SUPPORT the lie. Hopefully anyone who would lie would be smart enough to know what they need to do to cover it up...uh, support it.

2) We all know people 'embellish' or stretch the truth...to me, that's not LYING. If you describe (as someone did) marketing outreach as sending emails, and updating a web page...technically that IS marketing outreach. That's NOT lying. That's using fancy language for something mundane. The old 'domestic engineer/housewife' deal.

(Check out any federal job application for BS like that...it's hysterical at times)

3) My position is that lying is clearly wrong. BUT, I can see how some people feel pushed to doing it. It IS true most corporations will use you spit out and drop you without a whim if they don't need you. Most don't give one hoot about you, so I can see the justification some have for lying to a company that would lie first.

(Does HR REALLY tell the truth about the job or the company? Does the interviewer say this place is crappy and I'm looking to leave as soon as I can?)

It's a sad truth...it IS a dog eat dog world. My hope is that people who lie, do it as little as possible, and in as limited a way as possible.....then gain...you have the Bernie Madoff's of the world. Evil and people with no conscience exist. I pray they affect as FEW others as possible.
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Old 12-22-2012, 05:35 PM
 
6,473 posts, read 10,401,310 times
Reputation: 6347
Quote:
Originally Posted by selhars View Post
Believe it or not I've actually read more than half the 41 pages of this thread...andI I'm fascinated and almost speechless.
There's the issue/dilemma of lying itself, then there's WHY people do it, then there's, what people lie about.

1) Clearly, IF, IF you're going to lie...lie about something that could never be PROVEN fasle...duh! To lie about something you KNOW you could get caught on is just stupid. True, some people never get caught. If that's the risk you're willing to take, that's the individual's choice.

Lying about your SKILLS is not as risky as lying about a fact that can be researched. Now if you're asked how you got the skill, or a project you did, you need to be able to SUPPORT the lie. Hopefully anyone who would lie would be smart enough to know what they need to do to cover it up...uh, support it.

2) We all know people 'embellish' or stretch the truth...to me, that's not LYING. If you describe (as someone did) marketing outreach as sending emails, and updating a web page...technically that IS marketing outreach. That's NOT lying. That's using fancy language for something mundane. The old 'domestic engineer/housewife' deal.

(Check out any federal job application for BS like that...it's hysterical at times)

3) My position is that lying is clearly wrong. BUT, I can see how some people feel pushed to doing it. It IS true most corporations will use you spit out and drop you without a whim if they don't need you. Most don't give one hoot about you, so I can see the justification some have for lying to a company that would lie first.

(Does HR REALLY tell the truth about the job or the company? Does the interviewer say this place is crappy and I'm looking to leave as soon as I can?)

It's a sad truth...it IS a dog eat dog world. My hope is that people who lie, do it as little as possible, and in as limited a way as possible.....then gain...you have the Bernie Madoff's of the world. Evil and people with no conscience exist. I pray they affect as FEW others as possible.
No one WANTS to lie, but if it comes down between lying, selling ***** (because Lord knows I will NOT be begging the government for foodstamps and their pitiful cash benefits) or being an old woman living under a bridge with my shopping cart with nothing to show for it, then....I'm LYING.

No one is going to look out for YOU, except YOU and family that loves you.
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Old 12-22-2012, 07:38 PM
 
6,876 posts, read 7,273,507 times
Reputation: 9785
Quote:
No one WANTS to lie, but if it comes down between lying, selling ***** (because Lord knows I will NOT be begging the government for foodstamps and their pitiful cash benefits) or being an old woman living under a bridge with my shopping cart with nothing to show for it, then....I'm LYING.

No one is going to look out for YOU, except YOU and family that loves you.
I hear ya.
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Old 12-22-2012, 07:42 PM
 
Location: The City That Never Sleeps
2,043 posts, read 4,859,011 times
Reputation: 3336
Why don't we just live and let live. I couldn't care less about the moralists and holyrollers. The realists don't impose their views on others. Perhaps the moralists should mind their own business. The world will go on as is. The naive will be sheep living among wolves. The survivalist will resort to being the wolf in a forest full of wolves. "When in Rome..."
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Old 12-22-2012, 07:54 PM
 
810 posts, read 1,543,150 times
Reputation: 593
I always get caught when I lie. My latest example was when I said that I was fluent in spanish (i can have a basic conversation but I am not that great). Well the temp agency said they would test my on my spanish. That was not good for me.
I have learned my lesson no lies from me.
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Old 12-22-2012, 08:32 PM
 
6,473 posts, read 10,401,310 times
Reputation: 6347
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinca View Post
I always get caught when I lie. My latest example was when I said that I was fluent in spanish (i can have a basic conversation but I am not that great). Well the temp agency said they would test my on my spanish. That was not good for me.
I have learned my lesson no lies from me.
Why would you lie about something that could so easily be proven?

I know basic level Excel. I would never lie and say I was an advanced user, because I would immediately get caught.

If you're going to lie, then do it "smart".
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Old 12-25-2012, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 16,473,051 times
Reputation: 8776
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique13 View Post
Lying has nothing to do with religion. Many instances of people lying in all religious books. Some people either don't read or don't have a good memory.
Mystique13, I agree with you. A person has to do what a person has to do.

But, there are biblical based religious taboos on lying:

  • You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor (Exodus 20:16).
  • You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie to one another (Leviticus 19:11).
  • These six things the Lord hates, yes seven are an abomination to Him: A proud look, a lying tongue... (Proverbs 6:16-17).
  • [A]ll liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death (Revelation 21:8).
  • But there shall by no means enter [eternal lifeó[SIZE=-1]CC[/SIZE]] anything that defiles or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lambís Book of Life (Revelation 21:27)
To me, yes, lying is a bad thing, but often commerce moves by deception. If there were not laws put in place to prevent false advertising and dangerous products it would be a much worse world. If there could be a way to make business honest then there would be a lot less lying in the world.



If you are an average person and if most of your competition is being as deceptive as they can get away with it behooves you to do the same.



I chalk it us as rendering to Caesar that which is Caesars - giving back to business the lies that they give to us.
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Old 12-25-2012, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,408 posts, read 16,473,051 times
Reputation: 8776
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
To be Christian you have to be true to god (per Jesus). You cannot sin with intent. To be forgiven for a sin you have to believe that you are acting in the eyes of god at the time. Lying on purpose is not doing so.

Most importantly, however, is that lying or deceiving to get ahead is forbidden. Doing so on purpose basically means you're either not Christian or proudly going to hell.
Oh, no. You can have a deathbed repentance, and you don't even need that, so long as you accept Jesus as your savior you are still going to heaven.

That's what the bible says.

The only unforgivable sin is that against the holy spirit and nobody knows what that is.

This is why Christians are caught lying all the time, and it doesn't really bother them.

Last edited by goldengrain; 12-25-2012 at 08:31 AM..
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