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Old 09-05-2012, 01:46 AM
 
7,002 posts, read 10,311,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatornation View Post
Sure there is. The student at the university likely was much more successful in HS which is why they are at a four year BM school.
Have you ever thought that many adults attend college late because they had to or chose to work right out of high school? I was an "A" student who took AP courses, but I was on my own after I graduated high school and had to support a younger sibling. Funny thing is that Thomas Edison State College (an almost completely distance learning school) had the highest CPA pass rate in the state of New Jersey in 2010 or 2011. What good is that Rutgers degree if you can't pass the CPA exam? Now I know that many of TESC's students have a lot of real world experience and are better at self-studying, but that's the point. They aren't any less intelligent, any less educated, or any less prepared for the workplace.
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Old 09-05-2012, 05:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by L210 View Post
Have you ever thought that many adults attend college late because they had to or chose to work right out of high school? I was an "A" student who took AP courses, but I was on my own after I graduated high school and had to support a younger sibling. Funny thing is that Thomas Edison State College (an almost completely distance learning school) had the highest CPA pass rate in the state of New Jersey in 2010 or 2011. What good is that Rutgers degree if you can't pass the CPA exam? Now I know that many of TESC's students have a lot of real world experience and are better at self-studying, but that's the point. They aren't any less intelligent, any less educated, or any less prepared for the workplace.
I think you missed that "likely" part. Using uncommon examples to prove a point is a bad idea.

Last edited by Gatornation; 09-05-2012 at 05:55 AM..
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Old 09-05-2012, 05:22 AM
 
16,437 posts, read 19,173,916 times
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Yes, they can afford to be choosey now.
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Old 09-05-2012, 05:55 AM
 
7,002 posts, read 10,311,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatornation View Post
I you missed that "likely" part. Using uncommon examples to prove a point is a bad idea.
Disadvantaged children are uncommon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
Funny thing is that Thomas Edison State College (an almost completely distance learning school) had the highest CPA pass rate in the state of New Jersey in 2010 or 2011.
That should be 2009.
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Old 09-05-2012, 05:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by L210 View Post
Disadvantaged children are uncommon?
SAT scores and GPA for those entering CC is much lower compared to a university.

It's really amazing how some can't understand "averages".
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Old 09-05-2012, 06:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatornation View Post
SAT scores and GPA for those entering CC is much lower compared to a university.

It's really amazing how some can't understand "averages".
First of all, we weren't talking about community colleges; we were talking about non-traditional schools with online programs (CCs don't fall into that category). Actually, we were just talking about online students vs. on-campus students. It doesn't really have anything to do with universities, community colleges, or non-traditional colleges because they all offer online programs these days. "Brick and mortar" is not really a good phrase to use since schools like Devry and ITT Tech were around before the advent of online degree programs and most of University of Phoenix's students attend on-campus. Devry and UoP also call themselves "universities." ITT Tech even has student housing at a Texas campus. Second, it doesn't take a very high grade or even an SAT/ACT score to get into lower tiered universities. There are many with near 100% acceptance rates. I even knew a guy who got a merit-based scholarship at a private university even though he only had a "B" average for high school.

Economically disadvantaged children are less likely to even attempt to apply for college for many reasons other than grades. They are less likely to have family members who attended college, so they are less likely to have guidance through the application and financial aid process. Many aren't even aware of the financial aid that is available. Also, many economically disadvantaged children have to or are pressured to work instead of attend college. Yes, economically disadvantaged children tend to have lower grades and test scores for socioeconomic reasons and lack of access to quality schools, but many are eligible for acceptance to local, public universities.

The admissions standards for Generic University's BA in Basket Weaving campus program are going to be the same as Generic University's BA in Basket Weaving online program anyway.

Last edited by L210; 09-05-2012 at 07:15 AM..
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:22 AM
 
653 posts, read 1,553,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
Economically disadvantaged children are less likely to even attempt to apply for college for many reasons other than grades. They are less likely to have family members who attended college, so they are less likely to have guidance through the application and financial aid process. Many aren't even aware of the financial aid that is available. Also, many economically disadvantaged children have to or are pressured to work instead of attend college. Yes, economically disadvantaged children tend to have lower grades and test scores for socioeconomic reasons and lack of access to quality schools, but many are eligible for acceptance to local, public universities.
Repped you for this. Rightists don't recognize that the problem is NOT that these kids are lazy or broken.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stella2012 View Post
In this economy, to get ahead, you might want to consider further certifications such as PMP, CPA, Cisco Certi etc etc.
I got my PMP last month, and although it's like the CPA exam for managers, it hasn't really helped me get interviews. Studied hard for two months full time for that cert.

Also got my CEH in May. Beginning to wonder whether employers view that with some suspicion...
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Old 09-28-2012, 04:46 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,104,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
Economically disadvantaged children are less likely to even attempt to apply for college for many reasons other than grades. They are less likely to have family members who attended college, so they are less likely to have guidance through the application and financial aid process. Many aren't even aware of the financial aid that is available. Also, many economically disadvantaged children have to or are pressured to work instead of attend college. Yes, economically disadvantaged children tend to have lower grades and test scores for socioeconomic reasons and lack of access to quality schools, but many are eligible for acceptance to local, public universities.
.
To some degree, that is true. I came from a lower middle class family where 2 of 3 graduated college, 1 got a Masters, and 1 got a business school certificate. The kids I grew up with graduated from college at above average rates for our generation. But the key factor was the neighborhood was lower WORKING class, with most families having 2 f/t wage earners, and other neighborhoods in towns/neighborhoods with similar cost structures, fared worse generally in cases where the percentage working was lower.

Our parents knew how difficult it was to work without post secondary education, so they placed a premium value, and put forth tremendous effort, to insure we would obtain more education than they were able to.

So while I do not doubt in aggregate your post has substance, I'd love to see data differentiating f/t working poor vs non-working poor.
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Old 09-28-2012, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
12,679 posts, read 14,049,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stella2012 View Post
In this economy, to get ahead, you might want to consider further certifications such as PMP, CPA, Cisco Certi etc etc.

Source: All Exam Guide | Your Guide to Professional Certifications
GenieTalks | Your Questions, Answered!
Certifications of any kind are a great way to jump into the workforce and begin building experience and skills. After so many years of experience, degrees become less relevant. Seems employers still value experience over degrees so long as the worker can legitimately do the work.

I have a couple friends who skipped college and went right for various computer certifications. They make pretty good money these days. One actually works for a college. Shows you how much the colleges value the degrees they are pushing on everyone

As for the argument that college graduates are more successful... Well duh! Not to many of the stoners and losers in my HS went on to get college degrees, and they do a good job of pulling down the stats for the rest of us HS grads. If anything, people should start asking WHY it's acceptable for HS grads to be so ill prepared for the workforce if this is really the case.
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Old 09-28-2012, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
12,679 posts, read 14,049,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
To some degree, that is true. I came from a lower middle class family where 2 of 3 graduated college, 1 got a Masters, and 1 got a business school certificate. The kids I grew up with graduated from college at above average rates for our generation. But the key factor was the neighborhood was lower WORKING class, with most families having 2 f/t wage earners, and other neighborhoods in towns/neighborhoods with similar cost structures, fared worse generally in cases where the percentage working was lower.

Our parents knew how difficult it was to work without post secondary education, so they placed a premium value, and put forth tremendous effort, to insure we would obtain more education than they were able to.

So while I do not doubt in aggregate your post has substance, I'd love to see data differentiating f/t working poor vs non-working poor.
What is interesting is I come from a very middle class family. Grandpa came to this country with nothing, but in ten years, had an excellent career as a mold maker. Back in those days, that was a very high end middle class income job. My dad worked as an engineer for 30 years. Again, made a high end middle class income. Our close relatives were also middle class. What is interesting is absolutely none of them went to college. Most just went into various trades, and some owned their own businesses. Most of them made enough to have mom stay home if she chose.

None of them found it difficult to get by without a college education. I never had any problems myself, although I'm still young at 25. I actually think my HS education was pretty top notch because I got a well rounded education. Learned my math, science, reading, writing, consistently an A student in every subject. I think it's what you've learned that counts, not where you learned it, or how much you paid for it. Libraries are free if you place value in learning. When work was slow a few years ago, I spent a fair bit of time there doing just that. Sure, I was taking some part time college classes, but I really think I learned more in the library for free than I did in any overpriced lecture hall. I don't like spoon feed information because everyone has their own twist on "how it went down".

Most of us young folks have to hit a point where we are self sufficient and independent. That's the goal, and there are many ways to achieve that. I think my way was as good as any other. College is fine if you need some direction, or if your desired profession requires it, but it's not necessary for everyone. In fact, the United States is unique in our mindset that every young person should be pursuing secondary education. I think the costs tend to outweigh the benefits with regards to encouraging everyone to attend. I would like to see more technical programs and schools, as well as certification programs that can prepare for a career in months, instead of years. Furthermore, folks need to start demanding more of their K-12 system so young folks can exit with relevant skills.
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