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Old 09-03-2012, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Out West
22,699 posts, read 16,808,575 times
Reputation: 26275

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mermaid825 View Post
Do you have a strange sounding name? I once knew a lady in HR who refused to call an applicant if they had a weird, ditzy sounding, or unpronounceable name. Could it be something as simple as that? Good luck to you. Have you been able to identify what your successful classmates are doing that differs from what you are doing?
Please tell me you're joking. What a sh***y thing to do to someone who may be perfectly suitable for the position.
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:33 AM
 
Location: baltimore, md
53 posts, read 72,905 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanSeeker View Post
I still see people blaming unemployment on the unemployed and downplaying the poor state of the job market. So I figured I would throw yet another example out there (my own). If anyone has any new ideas, let me know, but I doubt it will be anything I have not already tried on my own or done after someone else already mentioned it elsewhere.

I'm in my early twenties, and I graduated with a Bachelor of Business Administration in Management Information Systems last year.

After thorough online research into job opportunities and supposed market demand for specific majors, I chose Management Information Systems. Why? Because numerous government, private research/survey organizations, and large corporations themselves were claiming three types of majors were the most in-demand: business, technology, and engineering. As I have a heavy interest in both technology and "traditional" business functions, I figured MIS would be ideal for post-graduate employment, as I was covering TWO of the supposedly in-demand areas, instead of just one. In fact, I remember seeing one survey that showed MIS specifically was in-demand even more than many other "in-demand" majors.

So I did my homework and matched my interests with what all sides of society (government, education, independent research, and private employers) told me it needed. If I had majored in only what interested me most, with complete disregard for what society claimed its needs were, and with disregard for economic conditions, I would have majored in something else that CERTAINLY would have been a ticket to unemployment. So in short, I thought about my future from the beginning, informed myself, and made decisions in a responsible manner. Maybe my information was flawed and business / technology / MIS was not in-demand? But if that is true, how was I to know that? I used the only available public sources of information I could find.

The university I attended is a public, non-profit school (so no, it was not University of Phoenix or DeVry University) with full regional accreditation, and its business college is AACSB-accredited (the highest accreditation for business schools, though it is obviously nothing special).

Due to multiple reasons, I had to take summer classes to stay on schedule, even though I was a full-time student from beginning til end. I did not play during the summer like many - I took a full-time load. I was under the impression that employers looked negatively upon those that graduate late, which is probably true, but it appears they look even more negatively upon those that do not do summer internships. In hindsight, I should have focused on full-time work / internships in the summer and graduated later (and with more debt). But unfortunately, at the time I did not have a copy of the nationally-standardized "Do You or Do You Not Deserve Employment" rules book. Actually, I still do not. Can I get a copy of that from someone? Maybe one of you people that keep telling people like me that we deserve to be unemployed can point me to a copy. I assume the unemployed are allowed to have a copy, since these rules and their priority are so arbitrary and it is the unemployed that are actually affected by them. Anyway, I still see many people who had internships and STILL cannot get a full-time job.

As for extracurricular activity, my school unfortunately had very limited opportunities, but from my very first semester, I participated every chance I got (which was not often unfortunately, but often enough to be more involved than most college students across the nation), whether it was conferences, community service, volunteer work at university events, etc...

Academically, I was among the top students of the entire university. I almost graduated with a 4.0 GPA - I got only one B in a one-hour elective class that was not required for my degree, or any degree in the university for that matter. I only once withdrew from a course. Unlike many of my peers, I never once cheated to make my grades (even when a professor was being unfair and I had a chance to join the others in doing so). I treated the classroom environment and all my professors with respect. When I turned in my work, it was often of much higher quality than the work anyone else submitted (this was the case in many of my classes in many different subjects, not just MIS), even of others that made As. I did not wish to submit the bare minimum to make an 'A,' I wanted to submit my best. I led (and did the vast majority of the work) a class team to be tied for first place among thousands of teams from hundreds of colleges that competed in an international semester-long business simulation. GPA-wise, I was second to only one person in the business college that made a 4.0. On a national business exit-exam, I was the top scoring student of the college.

After graduating in 2011, where am I at now? Still looking for a job.
- I have been looking for post-graduate internships, contract work, and full employee positions.
- I have applied to big corporations, medium-sized companies, and smaller businesses.
- I have applied to companies in all kinds of different industries.
- I have applied to both for-profit businesses and non-profit organizations (research/development, big universities, hospitals).
- I have applied to jobs in every part of the United States, including of course my own state, Texas, which is supposed to have one of the strongest economies in the union at the moment.
- I have applied to jobs in information technology, marketing, business operations, research / analysis, supply chain, etc...
- Every time someone comes to recruit from the MIS department at my school, I apply. So far I have yet to even get an e-mail back, and they end up never actually hiring anyone. One of them was looking for a new college graduate that already had multiple years of directly relevant work experience for an entry-level position - I applied anyway, and did not hear back.

Besides countless hours of research on the internet, I have sought personal cover letter, resume, and job search advice from anyone I can. Everyone (whether online or offline) tells me different things, often contradicting what others have said or written. I have tried everything (including different combinations of advice from everyone). I have redone my resume more times than I can count, and have re-wrote the core structure of my cover letters several times. I have created profiles/public resumes and searched on sites like Monster, Indeed, SimplyHired, Dice, CareerBuilder, LinkedIn, and several niche sites specialized for new college graduates (these sites are often spammed with the same "entry-level" jobs listed on the others that require multiple years of work experience).

During the very few times I hear anything at all back after an application (extremely rare), if any of the topics come up, I make it clear that I am willing to relocate, willing to work in IT or non-IT, willing to work in a technical job or non-technical job, willing to do any necessary training and learn fast on the job, and willing to be very reasonable on the salary/benefits. Yet, I have still never had more than an e-mail and phone screen, and very few of those.

Who have I personally seen get decent jobs out of my college? People who partied all the time (not just in moderation), didn't take anything seriously - ever, cheated but still made poor grades, treated both professors and students with disrespect, and threw others under the bus when it was advantageous for them. Something is not working right in the modern Human Resources department.

At this point, my plan is to go back to school part-time in a major metropolitan area and look for jobs in the area (right now I am a three hour drive from the area) and hope I find one soon without accumulating too much new student loan debt. I have had the "non-local candidate" excuse given to me before.

Anyway, I think my example proves that the job market is quite bad. It isn't as bad as the Great Depression, but it is bad. And what I think many do not realize is that much of the job loss is coming from other, permanent, factors (outsourcing, foreign worker visas, illegal immigration) outside of the recession, that will lead to even bigger problems in the future.
Experience is everything from what I have seen. I work in IT myself. Move to Baltimore, we've got jobs!
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:42 AM
 
Location: where people are either too stupid to leave or too stuck to move
3,997 posts, read 5,722,731 times
Reputation: 3635
"Who have I personally seen get decent jobs out of my college? People who partied all the time (not just in moderation), didn't take anything seriously - ever, cheated but still made poor grades, treated both professors and students with disrespect, and threw others under the bus when it was advantageous for them. Something is not working right in the modern Human Resources department."

I know how you feel. That's who get jobs around me too . People who didn't care, a--holes, people who lack common sense , all because they knew someone, related to someone, or got lucky
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:24 PM
 
2,963 posts, read 3,053,413 times
Reputation: 2869
This strung a chord with me:
Quote:
Who have I personally seen get decent jobs out of my college? People who partied all the time
Getting that first position is sometimes about "who you know." They may have made the connections you did not. This isn't to say that the ONLY way you can get a job is to "know somebody" but considering asking the people you know that have jobs or family/friends that are already working.

IT is a field that nearly every company needs. So if any of these people work for a business that has some IT needs, it may be as simple as someone dropping your resume on top. That is probably not what you want to hear. And let's not even talk about life being unfair. Just something for you to think about.
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
12,673 posts, read 14,005,324 times
Reputation: 13498
Perhaps I recommend this too much but... I have seen more than a few unemployed college grads getting hired into some of the production CNC shops around my area. Worked with a kid last year who graduated with an accounting degree from U of Illinois and they trained to babysit some robots. He actually took my place when I left that job a few months ago working on swiss machines. Started at $12/hr when he was tinkering with the robots but the job he's doing now is easily a $20/hr job with training.

There's nothing wrong with getting a college degree, and it should be encouraged but... We can't all do desk work
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:04 PM
 
7,592 posts, read 9,444,553 times
Reputation: 8949
Quote:
Originally Posted by sware2cod View Post
You have 2 major problems that you need to solve pronto.

1) You are in a small town, 3 hours from a large city. MOVE. MOVE TO THE BIG METRO AREA. THIS IS WHERE THE IT JOBS ARE. GO NOW.

2) If your resume or cover letter is as wordy as your posts, then you need to learn how to limit the volume of words.

Listen. I am in IT. I know this small town/big town thing. You MUST live near the big cities if you want to work in IT. Especially starting out. This is your problem. You degree is NOT the problem as your posts seem to suggest. Your problem is where you live.
Yes, the OP's posts are incredibly long, and just plain overwritten. There's something to be said for brevity, and getting to the point. It felt laborous just to sit down and read some of his posts..

And yes, he would have better luck if he relocated...
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:56 PM
 
640 posts, read 1,086,835 times
Reputation: 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by frizzo100 View Post
Burger King is hiring. I'm pretty sure they have coffee and desserts too.
Just stop. Please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Sorry, you're blaming the unemployed. This kid has done almost everything anyone would ever suggest to them on this forum. This person has done a LOT to do it, 'the right way' and still nothing?

When are some of you going to just give up and admit that a) the economy sucks, (all those people buying and living off of their credit cards does not mean the economy is good...it just means people don't fricken learn and things will blow up...again), b) some HR are asking for the world and then complain they can't find anyone.

With everything the OP stated in the beginning, I'm pretty sure that resume is impressive. Instead of blaming him/her, why don't you offer something constructive...like, openings you know about, places to look, etc. You being a sour mouth about everything they have done and their frustration due to getting nothing in return for all of that hard work is not helpful in the slightest.
Employer Says She's Been Looking For A Year, Can't Find A Soul To Hire - Careers Articles

Your welcome.
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:05 PM
 
47,573 posts, read 60,610,897 times
Reputation: 22283
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanSeeker View Post
I still see people blaming unemployment on the unemployed and downplaying the poor state of the job market. So I figured I would throw yet another example out there (my own). If anyone has any new ideas, let me know, but I doubt it will be anything I have not already tried on my own or done after someone else already mentioned it elsewhere.

I'm in my early twenties, and I graduated with a Bachelor of Business Administration in Management Information Systems last year.

After thorough online research into job opportunities and supposed market demand for specific majors, I chose Management Information Systems. Why? Because numerous government, private research/survey organizations, and large corporations themselves were claiming three types of majors were the most in-demand: business, technology, and engineering. As I have a heavy interest in both technology and "traditional" business functions, I figured MIS would be ideal for post-graduate employment, as I was covering TWO of the supposedly in-demand areas, instead of just one. In fact, I remember seeing one survey that showed MIS specifically was in-demand even more than many other "in-demand" majors.

So I did my homework and matched my interests with what all sides of society (government, education, independent research, and private employers) told me it needed. If I had majored in only what interested me most, with complete disregard for what society claimed its needs were, and with disregard for economic conditions, I would have majored in something else that CERTAINLY would have been a ticket to unemployment. So in short, I thought about my future from the beginning, informed myself, and made decisions in a responsible manner. Maybe my information was flawed and business / technology / MIS was not in-demand? But if that is true, how was I to know that? I used the only available public sources of information I could find.

The university I attended is a public, non-profit school (so no, it was not University of Phoenix or DeVry University) with full regional accreditation, and its business college is AACSB-accredited (the highest accreditation for business schools, though it is obviously nothing special).

Due to multiple reasons, I had to take summer classes to stay on schedule, even though I was a full-time student from beginning til end. I did not play during the summer like many - I took a full-time load. I was under the impression that employers looked negatively upon those that graduate late, which is probably true, but it appears they look even more negatively upon those that do not do summer internships. In hindsight, I should have focused on full-time work / internships in the summer and graduated later (and with more debt). But unfortunately, at the time I did not have a copy of the nationally-standardized "Do You or Do You Not Deserve Employment" rules book. Actually, I still do not. Can I get a copy of that from someone? Maybe one of you people that keep telling people like me that we deserve to be unemployed can point me to a copy. I assume the unemployed are allowed to have a copy, since these rules and their priority are so arbitrary and it is the unemployed that are actually affected by them. Anyway, I still see many people who had internships and STILL cannot get a full-time job.

As for extracurricular activity, my school unfortunately had very limited opportunities, but from my very first semester, I participated every chance I got (which was not often unfortunately, but often enough to be more involved than most college students across the nation), whether it was conferences, community service, volunteer work at university events, etc...

Academically, I was among the top students of the entire university. I almost graduated with a 4.0 GPA - I got only one B in a one-hour elective class that was not required for my degree, or any degree in the university for that matter. I only once withdrew from a course. Unlike many of my peers, I never once cheated to make my grades (even when a professor was being unfair and I had a chance to join the others in doing so). I treated the classroom environment and all my professors with respect. When I turned in my work, it was often of much higher quality than the work anyone else submitted (this was the case in many of my classes in many different subjects, not just MIS), even of others that made As. I did not wish to submit the bare minimum to make an 'A,' I wanted to submit my best. I led (and did the vast majority of the work) a class team to be tied for first place among thousands of teams from hundreds of colleges that competed in an international semester-long business simulation. GPA-wise, I was second to only one person in the business college that made a 4.0. On a national business exit-exam, I was the top scoring student of the college.

After graduating in 2011, where am I at now? Still looking for a job.
- I have been looking for post-graduate internships, contract work, and full employee positions.
- I have applied to big corporations, medium-sized companies, and smaller businesses.
- I have applied to companies in all kinds of different industries.
- I have applied to both for-profit businesses and non-profit organizations (research/development, big universities, hospitals).
- I have applied to jobs in every part of the United States, including of course my own state, Texas, which is supposed to have one of the strongest economies in the union at the moment.
- I have applied to jobs in information technology, marketing, business operations, research / analysis, supply chain, etc...
- Every time someone comes to recruit from the MIS department at my school, I apply. So far I have yet to even get an e-mail back, and they end up never actually hiring anyone. One of them was looking for a new college graduate that already had multiple years of directly relevant work experience for an entry-level position - I applied anyway, and did not hear back.

Besides countless hours of research on the internet, I have sought personal cover letter, resume, and job search advice from anyone I can. Everyone (whether online or offline) tells me different things, often contradicting what others have said or written. I have tried everything (including different combinations of advice from everyone). I have redone my resume more times than I can count, and have re-wrote the core structure of my cover letters several times. I have created profiles/public resumes and searched on sites like Monster, Indeed, SimplyHired, Dice, CareerBuilder, LinkedIn, and several niche sites specialized for new college graduates (these sites are often spammed with the same "entry-level" jobs listed on the others that require multiple years of work experience).

During the very few times I hear anything at all back after an application (extremely rare), if any of the topics come up, I make it clear that I am willing to relocate, willing to work in IT or non-IT, willing to work in a technical job or non-technical job, willing to do any necessary training and learn fast on the job, and willing to be very reasonable on the salary/benefits. Yet, I have still never had more than an e-mail and phone screen, and very few of those.

Who have I personally seen get decent jobs out of my college? People who partied all the time (not just in moderation), didn't take anything seriously - ever, cheated but still made poor grades, treated both professors and students with disrespect, and threw others under the bus when it was advantageous for them. Something is not working right in the modern Human Resources department.

At this point, my plan is to go back to school part-time in a major metropolitan area and look for jobs in the area (right now I am a three hour drive from the area) and hope I find one soon without accumulating too much new student loan debt. I have had the "non-local candidate" excuse given to me before.

Anyway, I think my example proves that the job market is quite bad. It isn't as bad as the Great Depression, but it is bad. And what I think many do not realize is that much of the job loss is coming from other, permanent, factors (outsourcing, foreign worker visas, illegal immigration) outside of the recession, that will lead to even bigger problems in the future.
I think you need to look in IT but also realize you need to find a particular system to administer. A degree in Business Administration in Management Information Systems is fine but doesn't say what exactly you can do. I think real world experience is what you need, not more classroom time.

What kind of organization do you want to help manage? What other skills might you need? Risk management? Financial management? Human resource management? Project management? Who would be the users of the system you would manage?

I think project management might be a good starting place -- projects like upgrades of systems are always going on somewhere or another.

For example, if you could get in on some project that will take place at some company, work with a project manager in any capacity -- user training for example even as an informal internship, you might get your foot in the door somewhere. Projects including systems upgrade projects always need user trainers. Find an information technology company that needs training reps or service reps or sales reps. Find out as much about some system or another, projects that are going on or being planned and get in on them.

Sometimes they need trainers who will work with users and these people may travel from one project to another -- so often they need people willing to travel and those are often people who are getting experience in the field but won't want to keep on traveling from site to site as projects begin and end.
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:12 PM
 
640 posts, read 1,086,835 times
Reputation: 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Please tell me you're joking. What a sh***y thing to do to someone who may be perfectly suitable for the position.
You'd be suprised at what can happen. People forgot what it means to be human in this society.
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:08 PM
 
Location: IN
247 posts, read 680,677 times
Reputation: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanSeeker View Post
I still see people blaming unemployment on the unemployed and downplaying the poor state of the job market. So I figured I would throw yet another example out there (my own). If anyone has any new ideas, let me know, but I doubt it will be anything I have not already tried on my own or done after someone else already mentioned it elsewhere.

I'm in my early twenties, and I graduated with a Bachelor of Business Administration in Management Information Systems last year.

The university I attended is a public, non-profit school (so no, it was not University of Phoenix or DeVry University) with full regional accreditation, and its business college is AACSB-accredited (the highest accreditation for business schools, though it is obviously nothing special).

Due to multiple reasons, I had to take summer classes to stay on schedule, even though I was a full-time student from beginning til end. I did not play during the summer like many - I took a full-time load. I was under the impression that employers looked negatively upon those that graduate late, which is probably true, but it appears they look even more negatively upon those that do not do summer internships. In hindsight, I should have focused on full-time work / internships in the summer and graduated later (and with more debt). But unfortunately, at the time I did not have a copy of the nationally-standardized "Do You or Do You Not Deserve Employment" rules book. Actually, I still do not. Can I get a copy of that from someone? Maybe one of you people that keep telling people like me that we deserve to be unemployed can point me to a copy. I assume the unemployed are allowed to have a copy, since these rules and their priority are so arbitrary and it is the unemployed that are actually affected by them. Anyway, I still see many people who had internships and STILL cannot get a full-time job.

As for extracurricular activity, my school unfortunately had very limited opportunities, but from my very first semester, I participated every chance I got (which was not often unfortunately, but often enough to be more involved than most college students across the nation), whether it was conferences, community service, volunteer work at university events, etc...

Academically, I was among the top students of the entire university. I almost graduated with a 4.0 GPA - I got only one B in a one-hour elective class that was not required for my degree, or any degree in the university for that matter. I only once withdrew from a course. Unlike many of my peers, I never once cheated to make my grades (even when a professor was being unfair and I had a chance to join the others in doing so). I treated the classroom environment and all my professors with respect. When I turned in my work, it was often of much higher quality than the work anyone else submitted (this was the case in many of my classes in many different subjects, not just MIS), even of others that made As. I did not wish to submit the bare minimum to make an 'A,' I wanted to submit my best. I led (and did the vast majority of the work) a class team to be tied for first place among thousands of teams from hundreds of colleges that competed in an international semester-long business simulation. GPA-wise, I was second to only one person in the business college that made a 4.0. On a national business exit-exam, I was the top scoring student of the college.

After graduating in 2011, where am I at now? Still looking for a job.
- I have been looking for post-graduate internships, contract work, and full employee positions.
- I have applied to big corporations, medium-sized companies, and smaller businesses.
- I have applied to companies in all kinds of different industries.
- I have applied to both for-profit businesses and non-profit organizations (research/development, big universities, hospitals).
- I have applied to jobs in every part of the United States, including of course my own state, Texas, which is supposed to have one of the strongest economies in the union at the moment.
- I have applied to jobs in information technology, marketing, business operations, research / analysis, supply chain, etc...
- Every time someone comes to recruit from the MIS department at my school, I apply. So far I have yet to even get an e-mail back, and they end up never actually hiring anyone. One of them was looking for a new college graduate that already had multiple years of directly relevant work experience for an entry-level position - I applied anyway, and did not hear back.

Besides countless hours of research on the internet, I have sought personal cover letter, resume, and job search advice from anyone I can. Everyone (whether online or offline) tells me different things, often contradicting what others have said or written. I have tried everything (including different combinations of advice from everyone). I have redone my resume more times than I can count, and have re-wrote the core structure of my cover letters several times. I have created profiles/public resumes and searched on sites like Monster, Indeed, SimplyHired, Dice, CareerBuilder, LinkedIn, and several niche sites specialized for new college graduates (these sites are often spammed with the same "entry-level" jobs listed on the others that require multiple years of work experience).

During the very few times I hear anything at all back after an application (extremely rare), if any of the topics come up, I make it clear that I am willing to relocate, willing to work in IT or non-IT, willing to work in a technical job or non-technical job, willing to do any necessary training and learn fast on the job, and willing to be very reasonable on the salary/benefits. Yet, I have still never had more than an e-mail and phone screen, and very few of those.

Who have I personally seen get decent jobs out of my college? People who partied all the time (not just in moderation), didn't take anything seriously - ever, cheated but still made poor grades, treated both professors and students with disrespect, and threw others under the bus when it was advantageous for them. Something is not working right in the modern Human Resources department.

At this point, my plan is to go back to school part-time in a major metropolitan area and look for jobs in the area (right now I am a three hour drive from the area) and hope I find one soon without accumulating too much new student loan debt. I have had the "non-local candidate" excuse given to me before.

Anyway, I think my example proves that the job market is quite bad. It isn't as bad as the Great Depression, but it is bad. And what I think many do not realize is that much of the job loss is coming from other, permanent, factors (outsourcing, foreign worker visas, illegal immigration) outside of the recession, that will lead to even bigger problems in the future.
Wow are you me? If I didn't know better I'd think I wrote this after I graduated lol. Right down to the 2nd in her business degree class fact. Odd.

I did my BS in 3.5 years & MBA in a year by getting special permission to take a higher course load. All it got me was over qualified while all the 'losers' in college seemed to find jobs via connections. That was my first real world lesson :-)
I ended up taking a really ****ty position that required no education and got promoted several times to now make OK money but by no means what I should.

Hard work gets you nowhere unless you work for yourself, get lucky, or know someone. I'm just a pessimistic shell of the driven person I used to be. /damn real world recession
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