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Old 06-15-2013, 11:04 AM
 
1,263 posts, read 2,777,674 times
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One place I worked, we had applicants for entry-level office work fill out part of a paper application in our office, even if they'd already supplied the info on a resume. Want to know why? To make sure they were functionally literate in English (as required by the job).

Some people who are functionally illiterate in English have a friend or relative write their resumes and cover letters. A 4th grade writing level is not always evident in an interview - they might speak quite well but write horrible emails & letters to customers.

A sample writing assignment at the end of the interview would have better, of course. I'm not sure why the hiring manager didn't institute a test. But lots of incompetent applicants were weeded out by simply having them write a few sentences in front of us.
FYI: This was for positions that required high school graduate level writing skills.

Last edited by LOL_Whut; 06-15-2013 at 11:14 AM..
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Old 06-15-2013, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
1,144 posts, read 1,007,843 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_the_facts View Post
Yes, what job requires you to write by hand?

Also, in my past experience, manual employment applications usually ask you to list job duties but then only provide a tiny space to list them. Applicants may simply put see resume in this space because there isn't enough room to list all or even most of their duties in the space provided.

You assume it should not take any more than 20-30 minutes long to fill out, but there is a substantial difference in how long it will take to fill out the application based on, a number of factors, including the number of past employers has to list.

All in all, this application process seems to be an arbitrary employment selection practice that is all too common in modern human resource departments. I hope your company isn't one of those that likes to complain about not being able to find qualified workers.
Especially if you want a paragraph describing job duties. I think most people would struggle.
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Old 06-15-2013, 11:43 AM
 
111 posts, read 565,411 times
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They don't fill out an application online first, so there is no duplication.

We are not testing their penmanship skills but if they write so poorly that you can't understand what they are saying they are being sloppy.
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:07 PM
 
2,383 posts, read 1,201,324 times
Reputation: 2411
Quote:
Originally Posted by HumanNature View Post
They don't fill out an application online first, so there is no duplication.

We are not testing their penmanship skills but if they write so poorly that you can't understand what they are saying they are being sloppy.
Or dysgraphic
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,454 posts, read 15,849,689 times
Reputation: 9914
Quote:
Originally Posted by mash123 View Post
Unless writing by hand is an essential part of the job, it's not suppose to bar somebody from employment.
Or it is a way they can separate the undesirables from the desirables who will move on in the process from the ones who wont.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_the_facts View Post
Yes, what job requires you to write by hand?

Also, in my past experience, manual employment applications usually ask you to list job duties but then only provide a tiny space to list them. Applicants may simply put see resume in this space because there isn't enough room to list all or even most of their duties in the space provided.

You assume it should not take any more than 20-30 minutes long to fill out, but there is a substantial difference in how long it will take to fill out the application based on, a number of factors, including the number of past employers has to list.

All in all, this application process seems to be an arbitrary employment selection practice that is all too common in modern human resource departments. I hope your company isn't one of those that likes to complain about not being able to find qualified workers.
These are common issues with the applications. Unless you have former employers on a smart phone to show all the data for previous employees (Street address, direct manager name (which sometimes you have MULTIPLE) and phone number) you will likely not get everything done in time.

Also I know with me I rather do things slow at home and get everything right than do everything in a flash but full of errors. Not everyone can be quick without errors when filling out an application with say 3/4 different jobs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BJW50 View Post
Especially if you want a paragraph describing job duties. I think most people would struggle.
Yeah most people take maybe five or so minutes to write one and may run into space issues. However, if you also have to fill in a bunch of information, you may run into time issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HumanNature View Post
They don't fill out an application online first, so there is no duplication.

We are not testing their penmanship skills but if they write so poorly that you can't understand what they are saying they are being sloppy.
That is a relief but this still sounds like a separating undesirables from desirable in a way that doesn't increase value.
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
9,044 posts, read 8,459,188 times
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According to the OP applicants are told to bring the necessary information and told that they will have 30 minutes to fill out an application.

There should be no excuses regarding a lack of information or insufficient time. If you are looking for jobs you need to have that information handy. A paragraph describing job duties should be easy to create from the bullet points already on your résumé.

This is a pretty simple test. Can you follow instructions or not, and can you perform a simple task in the time allotted? If you cannot, you have not taken the job search seriously and you need to rethink your plans.
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Old 06-15-2013, 04:37 PM
 
503 posts, read 1,035,500 times
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People who say HR thinks low wage jobs means you only have low level skills are the reasons kids would rather be unemployed than work fast food.
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Old 06-15-2013, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,454 posts, read 15,849,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
According to the OP applicants are told to bring the necessary information and told that they will have 30 minutes to fill out an application.

There should be no excuses regarding a lack of information or insufficient time. If you are looking for jobs you need to have that information handy. A paragraph describing job duties should be easy to create from the bullet points already on your résumé.

This is a pretty simple test. Can you follow instructions or not, and can you perform a simple task in the time allotted? If you cannot, you have not taken the job search seriously and you need to rethink your plans.
I am just saying that you need it to be accurate as much as it needs to be "fast." It can be a Like say you are given a pen and have to get everything right the first time in that 30 minutes, it is not as easy as it sounds. What do you do if you make a slight error and need to remove that, it leaves you with less space. It also may eliminate employees who would be good choices because they actually are diligent and take time making sure things are right rather than get it done in the shortest amount of time with no double checks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForkInTheRoad View Post
People who say HR thinks low wage jobs means you only have low level skills are the reasons kids would rather be unemployed than work fast food.
Though you can't be unemployed since the end of the last year you worked or be unemployed for two years also...<_<
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Old 06-15-2013, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
9,044 posts, read 8,459,188 times
Reputation: 15668
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
I am just saying that you need it to be accurate as much as it needs to be "fast." It can be a Like say you are given a pen and have to get everything right the first time in that 30 minutes, it is not as easy as it sounds. What do you do if you make a slight error and need to remove that, it leaves you with less space.
All applicants have 30 minutes available if they show up as instructed. This is an absolutely level playing field. If you cannot get it done in the time and conditions provided, maybe the poster does not want to hire you for exactly that reason.


Quote:
It also may eliminate employees who would be good choices because they actually are diligent and take time making sure things are right rather than get it done in the shortest amount of time with no double checks.
It may also show those people who can produce a reasonable work product in the time allowed. The OP is giving applicants the opportunity to show a skill, and all you are doing is saying that his setup will weed out people who do not have that skill.

To me that seems like the OP has a process that works.
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Old 06-15-2013, 11:28 PM
 
805 posts, read 1,013,855 times
Reputation: 718
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
All applicants have 30 minutes available if they show up as instructed. This is an absolutely level playing field. If you cannot get it done in the time and conditions provided, maybe the poster does not want to hire you for exactly that reason.




It may also show those people who can produce a reasonable work product in the time allowed. The OP is giving applicants the opportunity to show a skill, and all you are doing is saying that his setup will weed out people who do not have that skill.

To me that seems like the OP has a process that works.
But the skill of filling out a paper application within 30 minutes is not necessarily a skill relevant to the job. After all, there is likely very little hand writing involved in the job the applicant is interviewing for.
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