U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment > Job Search
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-27-2013, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Corona the I.E.
10,075 posts, read 14,013,634 times
Reputation: 8918

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
That is the problem. Do employers realize this longer process is taxing on potential employees?
I removed myself from consideration for a recent sales job, ins. It was 4-5 steps, I did the 45 min phone screen, then 90 min eval, then 1 hour first interview. She told me the process and the job expectations........I wish they would have been more upfront I would have passed completely. She said the entire process would take about a month forget it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-28-2013, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,933 posts, read 8,397,741 times
Reputation: 15520
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
That is the problem. Do employers realize this longer process is taxing on potential employees?
Yes. So what? It is not my job to make life easy for a person who does not (yet) work for me.

It is my job to get the best employee possible, which requires a certain deliberative process. Yes, I have probably missed out on a couple if good people because of a relatively long hiring process. But I have made some mistakes bypassing the process too.

Overall, the benefits to the employer in getting a good employee are outweighed by the costs of a lengthy hiring cycle.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2013, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Corona the I.E.
10,075 posts, read 14,013,634 times
Reputation: 8918
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
Yes. So what? It is not my job to make life easy for a person who does not (yet) work for me.

It is my job to get the best employee possible, which requires a certain deliberative process. Yes, I have probably missed out on a couple if good people because of a relatively long hiring process. But I have made some mistakes bypassing the process too.

Overall, the benefits to the employer in getting a good employee are outweighed by the costs of a lengthy hiring cycle.
Can I ask you a question. What is the avg cost for a new hire for you? I interviewed with a HM via phone and he said convince me to make it the next round. With bennies Colorado x and others you will cost me $75k in the first 6-9 months? When he told me that, being an objective person, I get it more now the process. And I made it to the next round.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2013, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,284 posts, read 15,762,848 times
Reputation: 9858
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
Yes. So what? It is not my job to make life easy for a person who does not (yet) work for me.

It is my job to get the best employee possible, which requires a certain deliberative process. Yes, I have probably missed out on a couple if good people because of a relatively long hiring process. But I have made some mistakes bypassing the process too.

Overall, the benefits to the employer in getting a good employee are outweighed by the costs of a lengthy hiring cycle.
But the process still gives people who are not the best fit and are out in a year too. No process is perfect. People can be great interview but not talented or great talents but not interviewers. Others could have other offers come up quicker than your's and your great talent that you were taking four months to go through the process to screen with a fine toothed comb, get snatched up in month two or three.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2013, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,933 posts, read 8,397,741 times
Reputation: 15520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado xxxxx View Post
Can I ask you a question. What is the avg cost for a new hire for you? .
Hiring cost is a fuzzy, ill defined metric. Do you apportion a fraction of your fixed HR costs? Direct expenses such as advertising? Hourly rate for people directly involved in hiring? A fraction of wages and benefits for the new hire based upon some estimate of efficiency during a training period?

I really cannot give you a solid number, but it is pretty expensive. Lets say $3k for HR contributions in administrative time and advertising. Maybe another $2k of my time for reviewing job descriptions, screening and interviewing. The first week of any new employee is a complete waste of both the new employees time and mine (from a productivity point of view), so call that another $3k. That's conservatively $8k, add another 50% ( not a typo) for fringe benefits, taxes, etc and you are up to $12 k overall. The next 6 months the employee will only be 50% efficient, and continue to take up another employees time for training and or reciting inevitable mistakes.Including fringe, lets call it another $35-$40k invested before the new hire starts to pull their weight. Total, maybe $50k, but you could debate that.

That would be for an entry level person. Temps/part timers are a much lower investment, but a manager will cost more.

You can see how hiring should be taken very seriously.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2013, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,933 posts, read 8,397,741 times
Reputation: 15520
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
But the process still gives people who are not the best fit and are out in a year too. No process is perfect. People can be great interview but not talented or great talents but not interviewers. Others could have other offers come up quicker than your's and your great talent that you were taking four months to go through the process to screen with a fine toothed comb, get snatched up in month two or three.
Could happen, but your fallacy is in assuming a deliberative hiring procedure has the same success rate as hiring somebody at random. In fact, being careful increases your chances of success, minimizing your overall cost.

No, it is not a foolproof system. If you know of one let me know and I will adopt it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2013, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,284 posts, read 15,762,848 times
Reputation: 9858
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
Could happen, but your fallacy is in assuming a deliberative hiring procedure has the same success rate as hiring somebody at random. In fact, being careful increases your chances of success, minimizing your overall cost.

No, it is not a foolproof system. If you know of one let me know and I will adopt it.
I wasn't trying to have the fallacy of deliberate long drawn out hiring vs random hiring. All I was saying was when you extend it for whatever reason (the talent pool; contacting the prospective employees; time it takes the hiring managers and HR to work things out; background checks; reference checks; et all)

I don't disagree that hiring SHOULDN'T be taken seriously. I am just thinking that some of the methods are faulty and don't help attract the best talent that the company wants and yet they complain about not being able to attract the talent...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2013, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Corona the I.E.
10,075 posts, read 14,013,634 times
Reputation: 8918
Tried to rep you FB thanks for the breakdown.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-29-2013, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Planet Woof
3,139 posts, read 3,506,027 times
Reputation: 9889
Dump the HR department, save millions there, advertise on CL, let hiring managers interview and do references, contract out pee test and BG check!

Wa La! 2 weeks max from interview to orientation!

BTW, I'm STILL not working nor do I have a firm start date! Yawn...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-29-2013, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Illinois
174 posts, read 356,114 times
Reputation: 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patton360 View Post
Hey, I remember a time when all you would have to do for most jobs (and I'm talking decent jobs too) was fill out an application, have a quick interview, and get the job offer.
Yup, that's how I got the best job I ever had with a big corporation and was there 19 years, started in 1974.

Same thing with my husband in 1987 and he's leaving that same company now after 26 years because they're moving. We're both going to be looking for work, not fun, and the hiring process today is a joke. Think about it, couple of decades ago people walked into companies, filled out apps and were hired within a day or two. We were good employees/workers who advanced through the years and companies thrived and spent a lot less money on new hires then they do today. If a person was hired that turned out not to be a good fit or whatever, they were easily let go.

Today they've complicated the whole process with their stupid psychological testing, etc. and despite the insane process and tests that are supposed to weed out 'undesirables', I've still seen incompetent people hired.

Getting hired today has become like dating, no one wants to make a commitment because they think the perfect person is still out there somewhere.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment > Job Search
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top