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Old 07-20-2013, 10:42 AM
 
17,000 posts, read 20,668,960 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123 View Post
They are out of touch for one of two major reasons:

1) They haven't had to look for a job in over a decade. I've run into plenty of these types - they think you can just "call people at the company up" to get a job... my favorite was the worthless career councilors who were there to "help" all of us laid-off engineers. They suggested we "go to the place of business and ask to talk to the hiring manager." Completely insane - the room was full of nothing but engineers who just got laid off from a defense company. I dare anyone to try to walk into a Lockheed facility - or, heck, even a commercial firm like Ford or GE - and ask to speak to the hiring manager. You'll be lucky if you're just asked to leave?! My current underwhelming job is full of these types as well, and none of them have a clue about the lack of jobs, the insane hiring practices, etc.

2) They don't want to know about the job situation. These are the followers of the Just World Fallacy. They believe that the unemployed are all "lazy welfare bums" and if they'd just "go to McDonalds and ask for a job," they'd have one that day. In their world, it is still the 1950's, anyone can get a job just by asking, and the only reason unemployment is so high is because people are "lazy" and "don't want to work." - apparently, millions of Americans just became "lazy" over recent years and prefer no income to a job... right... If they removed their blinders and got their news from a source other than hate radio, they'd have to confront the reality of the situation - that the jobs are gone thanks to a mix of corporate greed and public and government stupidity. But that would impinge upon their perfect view of the world and might lead them to empathize with the "lazy" people, so they don't want to know the facts.

Just my experiences.
Great post.

I would like to add that unless someone is in the same situation that you are most people just don't "get it".

Whether is is a job loss, the death of a child, caregiving of an elderly parent, etc. Unless people have been in that position they're clueless and make stupid comments trying to be "helpful".
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,290 posts, read 15,767,098 times
Reputation: 9858
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenvillebuckeye View Post
I've been to 3 job fairs in my lifetime, well drove to 2, attended the third haha.

one was outside charleston, sc where i actually did attend, sat down did an interview with a very nice lady and apparently "passed" so she took me to a special area where all the hiring principals were. wasn't a complete waste of time.

second was a job fair in charlotte. got up there, drove around the parking lot 4 times to find a place to park, went inside saw the enormous line of people and decided that since i already had a job i didn't need to spend my saturday waiting in line.

third was in raleigh, nc - i was killing two birds with one stone by visiting my old college roommate and decided to also check out the wake county schools job fair. similar situation as job fair #2. parked, walked in, walked out haha. the tragic moment of the day though was this poor girl who exited the building after me i could hear her on her phone essentially sobbing to who i assumed was her mother about how she'd was never going to find a job. kinda broke my heart considering i already had a job.

in all 3 situations i already had a long term stable job in my career field of choice and simply went to these events because it was early on in my career and i was curious enough to check them out. that was roughly 7 / 8 years ago as i have been at my original school of employment for now 9 years.

i hesitate to say this but when you have a job, especially in your career field, it makes job hunting all that much less stressful and hectic. at the third job fair in Raleigh i can remember thinking to myself "I can either stand in line for an hour or go back to my buddies apt and go back to bed haha". i chose the latter.

i do remember when i was fresh out of college asking my dad advice on my resume and he had none to give b/c as he put it "I've haven't had to update my resume in 30 years" haha. He had taught at the same school for 30 plus years and had no reason to ever look at it again once he got his job.
I have been to a few most have been junk jobs. Only Goodwill Job Fairs have been actually good to be at. The others had maybe 20 companies, only a handful were legitimate companies and not high turnover jobs.

As for what your father said to you about resume advice, it is great. This is why I do not really ask my mom for one (mainly because I've taken college courses in the last 5 years with resumes as a chunk of the course topics. No offense to my mom but I am not sure when she had to do one the last time because she's only had two jobs since I was born.
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:04 PM
 
13 posts, read 17,558 times
Reputation: 46
I'm not as young as you, but I have experienced exactly the same thing, especially right after the recession started in 2007. My life hasn't gone in a way where I can just work somewhere for years on end. I have had to move A LOT, and now that my life is more stable it's really, really affecting my ability to get a job.

It's REALLY f'ing hard to find a job now unless you are very specialized (I have a friend who is in comp. engineering and he can't get recruiters to stop calling him). Even a lot of specialized fields are suffering - people my wife graduated from law school with in 2012 still haven't found work, despite passing the BAR.

I think the people in this thread putting down your attitude don't know what they're talking about. Considering how hard it is to get a job (I've also tried fast food - was told by one manager I'm overqualified and he's looking for people who will never be able to find a better job) I think your attitude is just fine.



Quote:
Originally Posted by parried View Post
It's funny that this "bad attitude" ghost you keep bringing up is supposedly being noticed by prospective employers when I don't even get called in for an interview, after filling out another online application.

Yes, being a young kid and feeling perplexed as to why I'd been applying for fast food jobs for so long and not getting as much as a call back of some kind. While seeing others get jobs with not so much as lifting a few fingers. But somehow I am the lazy one, the bad guy, the screw up.

Having a family that tries to force and encourage you to live on the dole for your ENTIRE life and not question it, challenge it, disagree with it or walk away from it and not strive for anything better, but just accept defeat, and give up. Something I can't do.

I want to WORK. I'm young. I have no criminal history and have never done drugs. It doesn't matter what is done because it is NEVER good enough.

You don't know how it is to STRUGGLE to get even a fast food job over the course of several years and not being able to get it, for some unknown reason.

All the while I am rotting away, collecting SSI for which I have no real desire to be on anymore, wondering why the heck this planet and the people on it have such a problem with me wanting to get up every day and do an honest days work and contribute my part.

Time and time again, one thing has proven itself clear. The people, the atmosphere and the area around me has shown that it does not want me to be a productive member of society, and honestly, this seems like an episode of the twilight zone.

"I want to work, will you please hire me for me once, I am tired of filling out these applications and having to chase you down all the time."

Then the zombie says in a monotone voice: "Stop being lazy. Stop "faking" your disability and taking taxpayer money. You have a bad attitude. Employers can see it. It doesn't matter if the application was seen or not."

The disability "critics" are a dime a dozen, you can almost see the mustache growing on them. They complain about disabled people not wanting to work, and then when I, the disabled guy comes along and says yoo-hoo, I'm DYING for a flippin job over here, they are still spouting their junk about how EVERYBODY is scamming the system and looking for an easy way out. Do I have to slap someone in the face to make myself known?

Then I go home to a house with 2 parents at the dinner table saying: "Forget about working. Just relax. Your check will be here in a few days. You can't ever work, nevermind the fact that you've shoveled snow, and even worked at retail before."

I am living in a world where gnorance and corruption is promoted.

Last edited by MountainCouple; 07-20-2013 at 12:59 PM..
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:17 PM
FBJ
 
Location: Tall Building down by the river
39,615 posts, read 50,285,298 times
Reputation: 9451
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainCouple View Post
I'm not as young as you, but I have experienced exactly the same thing, especially right after the recession started in 2007. My life hasn't gone in a way where I can just work somewhere for years on end. I have had to move A LOT, and now that my life is more stable it's really, really affecting my ability to get a job.

It's REALLY f'ing hard to find a job now unless you are very specialized (I have a friend who is in comp. engineering and he can't get recruiters to stop calling him). Even a lot of specialized fields are suffering - people my wife graduated from law school with in 2012 still haven't found work, despite passing the BAR.

I think the people in this thread putting down your attitude don't know what they're talking about. Considering how hard it is to get a job (I've also tried fast food - was told by one manager I'm overqualified and he's looking for people who will never be able to find a better job) I think you're attitude is just fine.

Engineering or accounting
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,290 posts, read 15,767,098 times
Reputation: 9858
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainCouple View Post
I'm not as young as you, but I have experienced exactly the same thing, especially right after the recession started in 2007. My life hasn't gone in a way where I can just work somewhere for years on end. I have had to move A LOT, and now that my life is more stable it's really, really affecting my ability to get a job.

It's REALLY f'ing hard to find a job now unless you are very specialized (I have a friend who is in comp. engineering and he can't get recruiters to stop calling him). Even a lot of specialized fields are suffering - people my wife graduated from law school with in 2012 still haven't found work, despite passing the BAR.

I think the people in this thread putting down your attitude don't know what they're talking about. Considering how hard it is to get a job (I've also tried fast food - was told by one manager I'm overqualified and he's looking for people who will never be able to find a better job) I think you're attitude is just fine.
That's the real issue. It's basically it has turned into "an eat the youth" job market (as well as people who do not have a job.) If you don't have a job, you are pretty screwed.
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Old 07-20-2013, 01:32 PM
 
13 posts, read 17,558 times
Reputation: 46
For the next few years engineering, accounting etc will be a good fields, then when those fields get completely flooded (and they will, because everyone is doing something in those fields because they are the only ones expanding) they won't be much better than any other job out there. Though, to be fair, professional, specialized jobs like that will ALWAYS be better than what is available generally.

The friend I referenced who can't keep recruiters away from him is currently making in excess of $120k a year and he's not 30 yet. He's getting as much money and experience as he can because he knows in 5 or 10 years it probably won't be this good. He took 3 months to pick a job, not because he had to, but because the 2 or 3 offers a week he received just didn't pay well enough, weren't in the right city, the climate where the job is located sucks etc. He's my best friend, but I gotta admit when he was turning down $110k a year jobs with 5% 401k matches, 28 paid days off per year + health insurance and other benefits all because he just didn't feel like working yet, I was really aggravated. Not at him, but at the job market. Academically, I am a superior candidate. I just have the wrong degree, so therefore I have to take whatever job I can scrape off from underneath the table.

The current situation does nothing but demoralize and scorn the people who need jobs the most.

Frankly I think it would be impossible for most people to maintain a positive attitude about job hunting and employers in general if all they ever hear is NO. I am of the opinion most of the people in these positions, most employers and most companies are filled with worthless human beings. I mean this literally - these people's lives, in my current depressed and demoralized opinion (been trying to find a stable job since 2007), are worth nothing. It is made plainly obvious to people like the OP and myself that we are not even worth $7.50 an hour, so why should we think the people telling us we're worthless are anything but worthless themselves? I'm not saying I'm right, or that this opinion is correct. What I'm saying is how would you feel any differently? Even if you intellectually know you aren't worthless, and that the people you are asking for a job aren't worthless, how do you hide that if you feel that way? How do you hide the depression when you are on your 5th interview in a year and you just don't believe you really have a chance of getting the job?

If you are faced with this daily, in some cases years on end, do you think you could really maintain a chip-free, positive attitude in your job hunt? Do you really think you would not have some animosity towards those who think you're just a lazy moron who doesn't want to work? Being told you're lazy and worthless because you can't get a job, then seeing the doubtful and unempathetic expressions on people's faces when you try to explain that you have a good work ethic and are trying to find work but can't find it... that hurts A LOT, especially when it might be family or friends who think that of you.

Have some empathy for the OP. So what if he comes on the forum and ******* in new threads? Maybe that's the only thing keeping this person in a place where he can continue trying to find a job. Maybe the bitching and whining is the only thing keeping this person from giving up. I know that for me, sometimes ranting, bitching and whining were the only things that kept me from ending up living on the streets. Frankly, there have been many occasions where living on the streets and begging has seemed like a better option than waking up, shaving, putting on the one decent suit I have left and getting rejected for the 300th time. Don't forget you won't be able to eat lunch after that ****ty interview you waited 3 hours in line for because you can't afford to use cash to eat out and the only thing you can buy with foodstamps are unprepared foods (not that I have a problem with that).


Quote:
Originally Posted by WestPhillyDude75 View Post
Engineering or accounting
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Old 07-20-2013, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
1,230 posts, read 1,881,263 times
Reputation: 879
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezpeterson View Post
nah. Job fairs are (for the most part) a waste of time. They can be good networking practice, but they don't call them hiring fairs.

To answer your original question. I personally blame hr departments. Here's my example why:

One of my offices had 4 employees, one of whom i was putting serious heat on because he was making tons of mistakes and really pissing off customers. He even screwed up a couple of policies so bad i had to take funds out of marketing budgets to rectify the issues. So, as i'm walking through the three month process to get rid of a bad apple, i notice some irregularities in daily deposits. Just as i'm wrapping up an investigation that found two people in the office stealing money (the reason i run a harder background check now) this dude up and quits. I go from 4 to 1.

I immediately tap the stack of past applicants and start digging around for other candidates, and call my hr team. Of course they don't answer. Hr never answers the phone - they're "too important" probably on a conference call to schedule a meeting to talk about "next steps". So, i send an email

"hey, i need these three positions opened up to staff, immediately. "

response:
"we have to post it internally for 5 business days, so it'll go live for external applicants next thursday"

asshats! Fine, i can scrape through a week or two. Spend the 5 days interviewing, lock down 3 solids and a backup. Immediately have them apply thursday am. Call hr asshat - no answer. Send email - out of office reply. Escalate to his boss - no answer. 4 pm rolls around by the time she "delegates" this to new hr asshat. New hr asshat informs me that they are no longer making offers on fridays, since it leaves little time for applicants to get to the drug testing centers. Argue that they're open saturdays in this market, desperately short-staffed, have people wanted to get started, etc. All to no avail. Argue that it's ****ing thursday!! Nope, too late, apparently, "friday" starts at 2pm thursday to hr people.

Cornholed. Have to wait until monday for offers. Call all candidates - lose one. Cool, got a backup - call her. No worries, i'm still set. Background takes 5 days to clear, i start training following monday. If you've done the math this is seventeen days from when i wanted to hire these people.

Side note: Guy who bailed when process was delayed calls me 2 months later to see if i have any positions. The job he took instead of mine never paid out commissions due. Took him 5 months to land a spot.

Hr serves no purpose. Ever. A competent manager can do everything they do cheaper, better and faster but the corporate dynamic has been so scammed by these leeches that everyone thinks they're a necessity.

Asshats.
brilliant and well said!
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Old 07-20-2013, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Planet Woof
3,139 posts, read 3,506,027 times
Reputation: 9889
Quote:
Originally Posted by seain dublin View Post
Great post.

I would like to add that unless someone is in the same situation that you are most people just don't "get it".

Whether is is a job loss, the death of a child, caregiving of an elderly parent, etc. Unless people have been in that position they're clueless and make stupid comments trying to be "helpful".
YES. This is all right on!

And the stupid comments just keep on coming without any consideration for other's feelings or challenges.

I'd never felt "second class" until I was unemployed long term. Then when I came to find out (sarcasm) that it was "all my own fault", well I really felt like a piece of scum!
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Old 07-20-2013, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Planet Woof
3,139 posts, read 3,506,027 times
Reputation: 9889
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainCouple View Post
For the next few years engineering, accounting etc will be a good fields, then when those fields get completely flooded (and they will, because everyone is doing something in those fields because they are the only ones expanding) they won't be much better than any other job out there. Though, to be fair, professional, specialized jobs like that will ALWAYS be better than what is available generally.

The friend I referenced who can't keep recruiters away from him is currently making in excess of $120k a year and he's not 30 yet. He's getting as much money and experience as he can because he knows in 5 or 10 years it probably won't be this good. He took 3 months to pick a job, not because he had to, but because the 2 or 3 offers a week he received just didn't pay well enough, weren't in the right city, the climate where the job is located sucks etc. He's my best friend, but I gotta admit when he was turning down $110k a year jobs with 5% 401k matches, 28 paid days off per year + health insurance and other benefits all because he just didn't feel like working yet, I was really aggravated. Not at him, but at the job market. Academically, I am a superior candidate. I just have the wrong degree, so therefore I have to take whatever job I can scrape off from underneath the table.

The current situation does nothing but demoralize and scorn the people who need jobs the most.

Frankly I think it would be impossible for most people to maintain a positive attitude about job hunting and employers in general if all they ever hear is NO. I am of the opinion most of the people in these positions, most employers and most companies are filled with worthless human beings. I mean this literally - these people's lives, in my current depressed and demoralized opinion (been trying to find a stable job since 2007), are worth nothing. It is made plainly obvious to people like the OP and myself that we are not even worth $7.50 an hour, so why should we think the people telling us we're worthless are anything but worthless themselves? I'm not saying I'm right, or that this opinion is correct. What I'm saying is how would you feel any differently? Even if you intellectually know you aren't worthless, and that the people you are asking for a job aren't worthless, how do you hide that if you feel that way? How do you hide the depression when you are on your 5th interview in a year and you just don't believe you really have a chance of getting the job?

If you are faced with this daily, in some cases years on end, do you think you could really maintain a chip-free, positive attitude in your job hunt? Do you really think you would not have some animosity towards those who think you're just a lazy moron who doesn't want to work? Being told you're lazy and worthless because you can't get a job, then seeing the doubtful and unempathetic expressions on people's faces when you try to explain that you have a good work ethic and are trying to find work but can't find it... that hurts A LOT, especially when it might be family or friends who think that of you.

Have some empathy for the OP. So what if he comes on the forum and ******* in new threads? Maybe that's the only thing keeping this person in a place where he can continue trying to find a job. Maybe the bitching and whining is the only thing keeping this person from giving up. I know that for me, sometimes ranting, bitching and whining were the only things that kept me from ending up living on the streets. Frankly, there have been many occasions where living on the streets and begging has seemed like a better option than waking up, shaving, putting on the one decent suit I have left and getting rejected for the 300th time. Don't forget you won't be able to eat lunch after that ****ty interview you waited 3 hours in line for because you can't afford to use cash to eat out and the only thing you can buy with foodstamps are unprepared foods (not that I have a problem with that).
This is precisely what it feels like to be long term unemployed and have to put up with the scorn of people around you.

Rage, confusion, hurt, depression, anxiety...on and on.

Well stated.
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Old 07-20-2013, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
12,674 posts, read 14,007,917 times
Reputation: 13499
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
That's the real issue. It's basically it has turned into "an eat the youth" job market (as well as people who do not have a job.) If you don't have a job, you are pretty screwed.
Eat the young??? Many employers prefer young workers because they are willing to work longer hours in many cases. They are generally in better health as well, meaning fewer medical issues to worry about and less cost to insure.

I think the issue is the lack of experience for some. Training involved a great deal of risk and expense. Young folks are known to jump ship quickly. Don't really know what the solution is. As I have mentioned often, I am as young as a lot of the young folks complaining here and I have never experienced any of these problems. I don't have any degree or super specialized training. I did spend a lot of my free (unpaid) time learning skills that can earn a dollar, just like a lot of other folks did in college, which isn't an unreasonable expectation in my opinion. There have always been folks who have difficulties with their careers, but it doesn't mean the system is broken. Right now, it's particularly challenging, but it's still possible to find success if you put in the effort, and perhaps lower your initial expectations in some regards.
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