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Old 07-20-2013, 04:02 PM
 
1,923 posts, read 2,069,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
Eat the young??? Many employers prefer young workers because they are willing to work longer hours in many cases. They are generally in better health as well, meaning fewer medical issues to worry about and less cost to insure.
Ironic how everyone who says that turns around and says young people are just lazy and want to be paid big money and don't know a hard days work.
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Old 07-20-2013, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,284 posts, read 15,762,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
Eat the young??? Many employers prefer young workers because they are willing to work longer hours in many cases. They are generally in better health as well, meaning fewer medical issues to worry about and less cost to insure.

I think the issue is the lack of experience for some. Training involved a great deal of risk and expense. Young folks are known to jump ship quickly. Don't really know what the solution is. As I have mentioned often, I am as young as a lot of the young folks complaining here and I have never experienced any of these problems. I don't have any degree or super specialized training. I did spend a lot of my free (unpaid) time learning skills that can earn a dollar, just like a lot of other folks did in college, which isn't an unreasonable expectation in my opinion. There have always been folks who have difficulties with their careers, but it doesn't mean the system is broken. Right now, it's particularly challenging, but it's still possible to find success if you put in the effort, and perhaps lower your initial expectations in some regards.
You said why it is eat the young. Young look at the entry level jobs and you see need bachelor's degree AND at least two years of experience. For Verizon to sell cell phone you need only year of sales experience but still need a bachelor's degree to be considered for a job with them. I went to a job fair and the recruiter asked if I had one year experience and I answered honestly and said no but I took a college course in sales and know the basics. Safe to say the recruiter didn't give me the time of day for me to give a resume to her after I was being honest about my (lack of) experience (in sales)...

We can only get experience through experience which is impossible if you can't get the experience. You maybe able to teach yourself more advanced word, excel, access and powerpoint techniques but that is only a skill. Skills help but if you don't have the experience it rules you out immediately whether it is a computer filter or an actual person.

As for jumping ship, I know this is the way it is with me so this maybe an outlier but if I were given a position I wouldn't jump. The only way I would is if I had an unsafe work enviornment I couldn't work in (IE working with smokers) or I cannot move up after say a year or two. I am not going to get stuck being typecasted in any role. This is the wrong time to do so, let alone being stuck as in role for your entire career and having no chance of breaking into a new role. I honestly think nobody would say those two reasons to look for a new job is wrong.
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Old 07-20-2013, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Fairfax County, VA
3,718 posts, read 4,783,921 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
I was talking with my parents and I notice that suggestions that they offer such as going to job fairs are out dated and irrelevant. I want to know why is it that many people do not have a clue either how tough it is to be looking for work, the new processes and/or the way companies handle the processes. As I said to them, with my experience in retail and getting a customer service degree I should not "fail" a retail assessment (and yes I did just strongly agree/disagree except one in that portion.)
Have you had any success looking for jobs online-only?
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Old 07-20-2013, 04:42 PM
 
Location: The beautiful Garden State
2,683 posts, read 3,413,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
I was talking with my parents and I notice that suggestions that they offer such as going to job fairs are out dated and irrelevant. I want to know why is it that many people do not have a clue either how tough it is to be looking for work, the new processes and/or the way companies handle the processes. As I said to them, with my experience in retail and getting a customer service degree I should not "fail" a retail assessment (and yes I did just strongly agree/disagree except one in that portion.)
I know someone who insists that all you have to do is go to a store or office and "fill out an application". I told her that you must do it online now, and she looks baffled.
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Old 07-20-2013, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,284 posts, read 15,762,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joke Insurance View Post
Have you had any success looking for jobs online-only?
No and I have also tried a few paper applications (yeah I know rare but a few exist.) Both methods haven't worked. May use a headhunter but I am not sure how that will end up.
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Old 07-20-2013, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
12,674 posts, read 14,005,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
You said why it is eat the young. Young look at the entry level jobs and you see need bachelor's degree AND at least two years of experience. For Verizon to sell cell phone you need only year of sales experience but still need a bachelor's degree to be considered for a job with them. I went to a job fair and the recruiter asked if I had one year experience and I answered honestly and said no but I took a college course in sales and know the basics. Safe to say the recruiter didn't give me the time of day for me to give a resume to her after I was being honest about my (lack of) experience (in sales)...
Then folks need to look elsewhere. What this tells me is everyone wants a job selling cell phones and such. This accounts for a fraction of the jobs available. Like I have said, I don't have a degree and I have worked in many different fields over the years. Everything from health care, medical records coordination, and my current field of manufacturing. The lack of a degree has never been an issue. I understand that I probably wouldn't get that job selling cell phones, but that just saves me from having to apply for that particular job if I were in need.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
We can only get experience through experience which is impossible if you can't get the experience. You maybe able to teach yourself more advanced word, excel, access and powerpoint techniques but that is only a skill. Skills help but if you don't have the experience it rules you out immediately whether it is a computer filter or an actual person.
Learning skills is not the challenge. It's becoming proficient with the skills that makes the money. I agree with what you are saying. Unfortunately, I don't know of any solution. I found success by moving for opportunities because my original location wasn't offering much. That's the best advice I can give. Paid and unpaid internships might help for those seeking professional jobs.

Another thing to consider is with any career, you generally have to start on the bottom and work your way up. Even if you have learned a skill, it might takes years before you will have a position where you can fully utilize these skills. Many folks don't like starting on the bottom within a company.

I tend to think folks today often box themselves into a narrow range of jobs while overlooking fields where entry level opportunities are more abundant. I worked with a young guy about a year ago who had an accounting degree but couldn't find an entry level job for over a year. He ended up working on my shift in a large production shop monitoring automated equipment. When I left, the company moved him over to my department so they could move someone up to my job. Just talked with him a little while back and he left for another company and is making something like 40K/year now on straight time. Not bad for only having a year's experience. While the job doesn't require a degree, it still requires someone with reasonable intelligence, so it pays a livable way and offers upward potential. There's many careers like this, but young folks have no exposure and completely overlook them while looking for entry level jobs. Instead, they focus on the field in which they majored in, competing with thousands of other distressed job seekers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
As for jumping ship, I know this is the way it is with me so this maybe an outlier but if I were given a position I wouldn't jump. The only way I would is if I had an unsafe work enviornment I couldn't work in (IE working with smokers) or I cannot move up after say a year or two. I am not going to get stuck being typecasted in any role. This is the wrong time to do so, let alone being stuck as in role for your entire career and having no chance of breaking into a new role. I honestly think nobody would say those two reasons to look for a new job is wrong.
I thought the same thing. Eventually, you get bored with a job though, or you feel you deserve better money. I've had over 8 jobs in the past decade, now 26 YO. Many of these were part time jobs while going to college, but even in my current profession, I have worked for 5 different companies. I am the very definition of a job hopper, which usually warrants attention during interviews. Luckily, there is very low unemployment in my profession and employers need work done so they are forced to work with what they have. I've been at my current company for over year now, and I think I am finally ready to settle down though.

As an aside, we have been seeking an entry level helper for about a month now, but are having no luck. Most of the people who show up are either illegals, convicts, probable druggies/drunks with unstable work history. I always hear about all these young, bright folks who can't find a job, but our personal experience differs. I think folks are just rather picky about what type of work they would like to do. Unfortunately, a supply of people with a specific degree does not create a demand, so folks might have to consider (possibly less attractive) alternatives.

At any rate, you might say you won't jump ship now. Things wear into your well being though, and it's very easy to feel motivated to leave for better opportunities once you have that all important experience. For many young folks, it hits them quicker. Older folks with families and houses often feel just as disgruntled, but families and houses happen to be anchors. Many older workers will put up with abuse and low pay because they are not willing or able to pick up and move to better opportunities. Exactly why I am in no way motivated to settle down, reproduce, and conform to societal expectation. Not saying people deserve to be treated like crap or paid crappy wages, but that's just the world we live in.

Good luck and keep your head up. Don't let things get you down, because it will only demotivate you. That is poison to any career.
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Old 07-20-2013, 06:13 PM
 
2 posts, read 2,966 times
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Hi everyone!
I just found this forum. There were many good answers for the OP. People are out of touch as things have changed so quickly and also they are scared (general unconscious zeitgeist of fear) because they DO actually know on some level what's happening with the economy.

The more annoying and harmful part is, they have the ignorance/rudeness/lack of caring to open their mouths about the subject at all. To those who are being given negative feedback about your motivation, I suggest you decide that the opinion of those people is none of your affair. F them in other words.

There is a competitive energy here which does not belong in my opinion. Is this to support each other? Maybe it's a byproduct of what we've had to go through.

Anyway, I'm here because I'm considering leaving my beloved Hawai`i, where I built a life and career in counseling since age 19. Which was not easy given the cost of living; it was poverty for many years). Social services funds are tanking and my field (substance recovery) is getting less as the prison system absorbs those who would better benefit from treatment. I am 54, and I can tell you that the process of getting a job has changed radically. I have spoken to so many people who say, "If only I could just SEE the (prospective employer) in person, I know I could get the job". I agree. This online thing is exhausting, demoralizing and ultimately can drain a person of confidence to a dangerous degree. Then you finally get some BS job and end up feeling anxious, sometimes making mistakes you wouldn't have otherwise because you're so scared of messing up.

Who knows what is next; for me I believe that we need to support each other in any way we can. You young ones, try to find others to talk to, hang out with because you are in the hardest time the US has faced economically. Now I'm going to sound preachy but this is based on what I've seen: practice using manners. Much has been lost over the years. Thank people for their time. Show respect to people who are older than you. Appreciate words of wisdom; we give them because we want to save you from hitting the walls we may have hit. If you're learning, don't be afraid to take notes and ask questions. A good supervisor will appreciate you for it. Show up early or on time, be responsible and do what you say or say you may need help. Stay off the computer/phone, etc. Dress appropriately. These sound like a pain and some are, at first, but they will pay off. OP good luck, catch u later, love, MHG
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,284 posts, read 15,762,848 times
Reputation: 9858
I don't have a problem with starting at the bottom of the barrel. I just want to have the opportunity to move up and not get typecasted as ONLY being a bagger, ONLY being a retail cashier, ONLY being a waiter/waitress, ONLY being a fry cook, ect. I want to move up and get more experience and cross-train because as a future manager, I want to have a basic knowledge of the positions I work with.

As for if I would jump faster or slower, it would likely depend on the situation. Am I only working on the low-end of part-time (say 15-20) for barely over minimum wage and I have expenses coming in and I cannot get more hours nor would I be able to land a second job. This and the "unsafe environment" I said earlier would be the only reason I would leave a company relatively early unless I got a substantially better offer from a recruiter for another company (say at at least 1.5 more what I am making at the current job.) I don't think that kind of stuff is uncommon nor should be looked down on.

I think another issue is particular with "recent" college grads is the fact their degree limits them to an extent. Say would an architect or engineer be able to balance the books for company, no. On the same a business major would likely not be credible to design buildings. A liberal arts major, likely would not be able to do either. Could the be trained, yes but this is not really a training economy (just look at the issues gaining skills.) However jobs like retail, waiting tables, even being a barista at the local coffee house are unskilled and by most accounts the jobs that are creating the most post-recovery jobs. Thereby giving most of the unemployed a position even if it is low paying.
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Old 07-20-2013, 09:48 PM
FBJ
 
Location: Tall Building down by the river
39,615 posts, read 50,276,243 times
Reputation: 9451
I just never understood the mindset that some people have when they come out of college which is feeling like they have to apply for a fast food or retail job.

I wasn't able to get a job in my field right out of college but I felt like I was qualified to do other things besides fast food and retail
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Old 07-20-2013, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,284 posts, read 15,762,848 times
Reputation: 9858
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestPhillyDude75 View Post
I just never understood the mindset that some people have when they come out of college which is feeling like they have to apply for a fast food or retail job.

I wasn't able to get a job in my field right out of college but I felt like I was qualified to do other things besides fast food and retail
It's about the job requirements. For entry level jobs you don't only need to know how to box but have beaten everyone but Forman, Ali and Frazier. Or in a more modern sense, you know MMA are in UFC and beat everyone but yet to face the GSP and (Anderson) Silvas of the world. You see entry level jobs asking for X years of experience with the degree which is hard to get without the other.
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