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Old 10-21-2018, 08:13 AM
 
2,053 posts, read 595,092 times
Reputation: 2905

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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverct9a View Post
I registered just to write this but I clearly stumbled across this thread way too late to be of help to the OP. This topic hits very close to home and I feel my experience could possibly help someone in a similar boat(I certainly wished I had someone back in 2013 to guide me).

I too graduated in 2013 with a bachelor's in physics and now I'm a software developer with 2 years of experience...let me share how this came to be. Coming out of undergrad I had two NSF REUs(Research Experience for Undergraduates at two much higher ranked and well known schools than my own) I also managed an AT&T store in my final year of school(very stressful). I didn't have stellar grades at all, but I did know how business works and knew when results were necessary and worked accordingly...this is important!

Upon graduation I did secure a few on campus interviews with well known companies through the career services department(I feel this is ALWAYS the best route to a great job out of school). I was always a finalist and flown out to company HQ's but could never land the actual position...as you can imagine this gets frustrating. I eventually ended up moving back to my hometown in South Florida(so not really a small town) but not exactly a tech haven either. Surprisingly my resume did garner lots of attention from local employers for good jobs(tech sales, actual engineering positions, analyst roles) I got the in person interviews, but I couldn't land those either! WTF?!

2013/2014 both fly by with me unemployed or working temp jobs(data entry, cell phone repair). I ended up working for a week at this sunglasses startup company packaging sunglasses and printing UPCs...mind numbing stuff. The owner quickly realizes I'm no moron and asks if I have coding/development experience I tell yes(gotta fake it til you make it) and although I didn't, I did take C & C++ in college and did well. The on site developer introduces me to SQL and asks if I have any knowledge/could I read the code on the screen. I didn't do well, but by the end of the week I impressed him enough for him to install the software on my laptop to work with practice data.

It was then I realized I was missing "hard" skills. I had the education, but I didn't really have a tangible skill. I spent every waking moment mastering SQL, Excel, even Access. I came across a grant for unemployed/underemployed residents that would provide training in in-demand careers and sure enough database and development was covered. I then enrolled in a vocational school that taught the Microsoft .NET stack(C#,VB.NET, ASP.NET, SQL) I studied day and night and eventually landed a Jr. Dev position.

I went from sporadic employment to 50K a year in a matter of months once I fully dedicated myself to the craft. I'm currently much higher now.

Bottom line: Your degree is not the issue! In fact it's pretty desirable and I've been granted interviews just based on the fact I had a hard STEM degree. I admit you may be behind a CS grad, but self study to fill in the gaps. You need skills...hard tangible skills. Employers don't train anymore and you WILL face technical interviews so know your stuff!

Next, get involved in the local dev community. Trust me these guys are out there! Not everyone at starbucks on their MacBook Pros are looking at cat videos and writing some pipe dream film script. I was always working at the local starbucks and so were some of the other guys - Pay attention to people's computers screens.

Finally, consider a bootcamp or some other type of vocational training. Find out ways you can pay for it. My vocational school even accepted payment plans. You won't know unless you ask...you'd be surprised how much help people are willing to lend once they find out you're serious.
So let me get this straight. Recent grads have to basically go to school/training again and on their own dime or time.

This system is completely broken. The solution is to bring back true entry level positions which train. Maybe then retention wouldn't be such a big issue.
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Old 10-21-2018, 08:23 AM
 
1,857 posts, read 714,087 times
Reputation: 3965
Quote:
Originally Posted by persistence_of_vision View Post
I gave up the job search. I sunk into depression when my unemployment ran out and got on disability. That was 10 years ago. I have skills (fixing computers, IT, no programming, no degree). I gave up because it was taking so long to get any interest from any employer yet i have solid pc skills. I plan to just stay on disability i guess for the rest of my life. I lost interest in wanting to work because if it is going to be so difficult to get a job then i say, **** it!" I don't want a service industry job or retail or hourly wage work. I'm too good for that s**t. I'm in my early 50's so i figure I'll just stay on disability until retirement.

I tried everything in the book to show my skills and it got me no where. I even tried suicide but i didn't die, obviously. God, i look forward to when my life is over. Then i don't have to worry about anything anymore. And yes I am on an anti-depressant and i see a psychiatrist. I've been seeing those since I was a kid. I gave up trying because society makes things too tough. Life should give people a break. Why can't i get a break? I think of the things i will never have like a family of my own, a spouse, financial security, complete happiness, a feeling that life was fair to me. I think the government (and Trump should like this) should set up suicide centers where people can go to just end it all, painlessly. Just go to sleep and never wake up again. I fantasize about that every f'in' day. The way i feel is a reflection of how society has treated me. I never got a fair chance. Yes, life should be fair. And no, no one told me life is fair or unfair. They didn't tell me s**t. Life also sucks c*ck.

Here's my advice to society if you don't want people sitting around all day watching tv while surfing the web and collecting a check: make high paying or at least medium paying jobs easier to get even if you don't have a degree AND even if your job history is spotty, reflecting some job hopping or gaps in employment. If anyone out there is a complainer about those on disability and say that they should all get jobs, well, get employers to offer quality jobs like tech jobs or executive positions to candidates who deserve a good paying job (i'm thinking 6 figures or more) to people who are smart but couldn't get an education due to their disability and you would see less people on disability.
Equal opportunity for everyone.
You are not a failure. As you said, it is tough to find good jobs nowadays. Smart, talented, and persistent people are also having a tough time. The deck is stacked against us. Some people on this site will start blaming you, telling you that it is all your fault. To toughen up, etc. But there is only so much that you can do. Don't listen to them.

At least you have a check coming in. Others are not so fortunate. You are also old enough to start looking forward to retirement. Also, there is no such thing as complete happiness. No matter how much money you have coming in, no matter how healthy you are, you will still have problems. So count your blessings for what you do have, do what you can, and try to squeeze out as much as you can out of life. I wish you the best.
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Old 10-21-2018, 08:25 AM
 
2,053 posts, read 595,092 times
Reputation: 2905
Quote:
Originally Posted by persistence_of_vision View Post
I gave up the job search. I sunk into depression when my unemployment ran out and got on disability. That was 10 years ago. I have skills (fixing computers, IT, no programming, no degree). I gave up because it was taking so long to get any interest from any employer yet i have solid pc skills. I plan to just stay on disability i guess for the rest of my life. I lost interest in wanting to work because if it is going to be so difficult to get a job then i say, **** it!" I don't want a service industry job or retail or hourly wage work. I'm too good for that s**t. I'm in my early 50's so i figure I'll just stay on disability until retirement.

I tried everything in the book to show my skills and it got me no where. I even tried suicide but i didn't die, obviously. God, i look forward to when my life is over. Then i don't have to worry about anything anymore. And yes I am on an anti-depressant and i see a psychiatrist. I've been seeing those since I was a kid. I gave up trying because society makes things too tough. Life should give people a break. Why can't i get a break? I think of the things i will never have like a family of my own, a spouse, financial security, complete happiness, a feeling that life was fair to me. I think the government (and Trump should like this) should set up suicide centers where people can go to just end it all, painlessly. Just go to sleep and never wake up again. I fantasize about that every f'in' day. The way i feel is a reflection of how society has treated me. I never got a fair chance. Yes, life should be fair. And no, no one told me life is fair or unfair. They didn't tell me s**t. Life also sucks c*ck.

Here's my advice to society if you don't want people sitting around all day watching tv while surfing the web and collecting a check: make high paying or at least medium paying jobs easier to get even if you don't have a degree AND even if your job history is spotty, reflecting some job hopping or gaps in employment. If anyone out there is a complainer about those on disability and say that they should all get jobs, well, get employers to offer quality jobs like tech jobs or executive positions to candidates who deserve a good paying job (i'm thinking 6 figures or more) to people who are smart but couldn't get an education due to their disability and you would see less people on disability.
Equal opportunity for everyone.
I do not want to make a spectacle out of your pain but I have gone through similar despair as I'm sure others have as well and it is necessary to understand how to prevent it. Your experience needs to be shown to expecting parents when they have "oops" babies and think the world is roses and sunshine and don't care what happens ("god will make a way" , "everything happens for a reason" and other feel good BS they tell themselves) or what type of life their child leads after they kick the bucket. The reality is we are in the wild concrete jungle and it's every Man for himself. Everyone was a kid at some point and everyone is somebody's child. Do you really want to subject your child to this type of existence? If not make sure you have at least $100k liquid cash in the bank and your sh** in gear before reproducing. Otherwise this will be the result.

And even worse - There are others in your situation who never tried and don't care to try. When talking about leeches - I refer to those people. However, there are many also in your scenario who could contribute to the economy but effectively are not allowed to due to not meeting arbitrary criteria. This is the only country this happens in to this extent. Have you considered trying to teach English abroad?
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Old 10-21-2018, 11:27 AM
 
6,875 posts, read 7,270,643 times
Reputation: 9785
Quote:
I don't want a service industry job or retail or hourly wage work. I'm too good for that s**t.
Why are you too good for a service industry job or hourly wage work?

Some service industry workers make a very good living, and some "hourly" wage workers make six-figures.
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Old 10-21-2018, 07:06 PM
 
4,069 posts, read 5,464,316 times
Reputation: 4920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencent View Post
So let me get this straight. Recent grads have to basically go to school/training again and on their own dime or time.

This system is completely broken. The solution is to bring back true entry level positions which train. Maybe then retention wouldn't be such a big issue.
Since he had degree is in physics, you need to take some kind of training in programming to get a software developer job.

He got a degree in software engineering. He wouldn't need to take courses after college in it.
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Old 10-21-2018, 09:01 PM
 
2,053 posts, read 595,092 times
Reputation: 2905
Quote:
Originally Posted by move4ward View Post
Since he had degree is in physics, you need to take some kind of training in programming to get a software developer job.

He got a degree in software engineering. He wouldn't need to take courses after college in it.
From what I hear. It's always something. Even software engineers now have to take Udemy courses because Employer A wants a Guru in Angular.js, YoMomma.PHP and SQL.DXV344.
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Old 10-21-2018, 11:16 PM
 
1,857 posts, read 714,087 times
Reputation: 3965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencent View Post
From what I hear. It's always something. Even software engineers now have to take Udemy courses because Employer A wants a Guru in Angular.js, YoMomma.PHP and SQL.DXV344.
Yes, correct. I am a former software developer with 35 years of experience and in this field you have to keep learning and learn new stuff all the time. It's part of the job. Many in this profession hate doing that. Many times on your own dime and time.
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Old 10-21-2018, 11:32 PM
 
1,546 posts, read 399,556 times
Reputation: 2887
Not being able to find entry-level software positions with no experience requirements doesn't surprise me at all. I don't know if they ever existed this century.

You've been on the wrong course and its time to take a corrective action.

Actually talk with people doing the job you wanted to do and find out exactly what requirements are important to those jobs and companies. Especially in software, you can go to user groups and workshops, many for free, and ask people about their work and background. Or ask them online also through Linkedin. Or look at their profiles on Linkedin and see what background and work experience people have for the jobs you want. You aren't in college now, so what, you can still network with people doing what you want. You can gain experience through Open Source projects. Find a void and create your own Open Source project.

You got reasons, concerns, excuses, misunderstandings of why you can't do what I recommended, then bring it on.
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Old 10-21-2018, 11:33 PM
 
1,546 posts, read 399,556 times
Reputation: 2887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencent View Post
From what I hear. It's always something. Even software engineers now have to take Udemy courses because Employer A wants a Guru in Angular.js, YoMomma.PHP and SQL.DXV344.
It is high-tech, it changes, it is called progress. You don't want progress then become a blacksmith.

Anyone complaining about having to learn new things doesn't belong in a high-tech field.
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Old 10-21-2018, 11:36 PM
 
1,546 posts, read 399,556 times
Reputation: 2887
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
Yes, correct. I am a former software developer with 35 years of experience and in this field you have to keep learning and learn new stuff all the time. It's part of the job. Many in this profession hate doing that. Many times on your own dime and time.
People who are teaching at a college and need to get a PhD to keep their job, they have to pay for the degree themselves too. Everyone has some kind of continuing education, and that's how it has always been. The thing is, it is portable so you can take it to another employer.

I wouldn't want to go to a doctor who doesn't want to keep up their board certifications or read the latest medical journals, and is still treating patients with 1995 technology.
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