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1) The company is hurting, so they let 4,000 people go.
2) At the SAME TIME, they give the CEO a $10 million pay increase (not even a 1 time bonus)
This is completely indefensible. That pay increase could have paid for the salaries of 100 employees if we assume that they are each getting $100,000 in total compensation. There is no way to justify this - if the company IS doing badly, than the CEO should not be getting an 80% pay increase to over 20 million a year... if the company is doing well enough to afford such a huge pay increase, then it doesn't need to be laying off thousands of workers.
I understand that the CEO's pay increase wouldn't have covered the cost of most of the people let go, but it is height of greed and arrogance to toss the workers to the door because of "hard times" and to then turn around and give oneself $10 million a year more because apparently only making $10 million a year just wasn't enough. And this type of junk happens all the time - no sane person can defend it unless we're to use some loony belief system where executives should be paid whatever they want, but the rest of us - the workers who allow the companies to exist - should feel "lucky" if we even have a job.
Nail. Head.
Direct hit.
I currently do not have employees - my work volume is not sufficient enough to require it, but, when I do get to such a point, I have already determined I will do well by my employees. No, they won't be put on any gravy train, and they damn as hell will EARN what they make from me....but it will also be the damn best job they ever had.
Because I believe when you treat people well, and pay them adequately - you attract the best and brightest. And those are the people I want working for me. I do not want a trained chimpanzee.
That's the problem with most companies nowadays. They believe that if you register "bingo" on some internal meter that only they can read (and you the applicant has no way of knowing what makes you hit "bingo") then you will do a good job. and the things that make the "bingo" in the eyes of these morons often has very little to do with your actual knowledge, skills or abilities....and a lot to do with personal/personality crap that has no bearing on your ability to do a specific job.
They figure that any trained chimp can do the job - or can be thrown to the wolves to "fake it till you make it"...and they are penny-wise and dollar-foolish. Me, I want to attract the best people, and I'll do what I need to to get them. When I actually need them.
If more businesses did things this way, the business landscape overall would be much better. But the executives of today listen only to the investors who want a quick return on their investment, and anything they do that bumps the stock up a quarter=point is a good thing....never mind the disastrous consequences later on....after said executive has bailed with his golden parachute!
It used to be corporations had long vision, had five, ten and even twenty-year plans. Nowadays, their vision extends only as far as the next quarterly stock report. and THAT...is what is wrong with American business these days.
And don't expect it to change any time soon. The execs only listen to the investors...and the investors are only there to make a quick buck and get out. In a word, I'll tell you what happened, and what went wrong with American business: Day traders. These are the bottom-feeding scum that go in, buy up shares, make decisions that make a short-term gain, and then get the freak out of Dodge before the bottom falls out. And then go on to the next company and wash, rinse, repeat. and it is the workers who often feel the pain of the fallout when it happens.
Used to be investors invested for the long term. Not anymore. They want a quick ROI, and then to get out and jump on the next quick ROI opportunity they see. They are true vultures.
This discussion is all about blaming the employers. People are claiming there are millions of qualified applicants, but these greedy nasty employers deliberately bypass them in favor of underpaid foreigners flooding in to take away our jobs.
Not true! No employer wants to outsource or hire in foreigners who have a language barrier, culture barrier, expenses and liabilities associated with a work visa, etc.
Employers would greatly prefer to have someone local, someone familiar and easy to communicate with, someone they go to church with. The problem is, it's impossible to find such people.
I'd warrant that no one reading this has ever had to hire anybody, has no clue what it's like from the point of view of someone trying to get work done and unable to find qualified, hard working, humble, honest people to help out. Hint: they don't exist anymore in this country.
Instead what one gets is a depressing succession of people with substance abuse problems, people with an entitlement mentality who would sue their employer at a moment's notice, who try to get away with the bare minimum effort needed to not get fired, who steal and lie whenever it benefits them to do so, who might suddenly quit and leave you in the lurch no matter how nicely you treat them.
People from developing countries don't have as many of these decadent ways, they seem more willing to work very hard and invest themselves into the company with loyalty and pride in their work and respect for authority. This is the type of person who made this a great country. Not the lazy entitled ones, who are basically leeches and parasites, but the hard working ones who you might call naive and foolish for trusting the employer. But guess what. At the end of the day, that's the kind of person who took us to the moon and back.
There are plenty of jobs out there for people willing to work hard. You can go to the oil fields of North Dakota and make $80K driving a truck, $40K washing dishes, etc. It's an oil boom up there. It seems that a lot of folks would rather sit around and complain about their lot in life, than get off their lazy duffs and do something about it. I have no patience for such people. And I have no patience for those who say such people deserve anything more than the poverty in which they prefer to wallow.
How can you make such BLANKET STATEMENTS about both Americans and people from developing countries?
For instance, developing countries are the home of BRIBERY and THIEVERY to get any kind of business done! Yeah, they're so holy and ALL AMERICANS are such lazy crooks!
Have you ever even been to a developing country? Well, I have. It's a whole other world out there. Your hard working wonderful people turn their heads at babies begging on the streets that they full well know are put there by adults to make money for them. Nobody cares.
I still maintain that consumers ultimately still pay the higher price and hence the companies can still do this. Coach is a unique example as when you have a brand reputation like that, you will still have customers. Besides, how do we know they didn't have to do this because sales fell 50% so they had to figure out a way to cut manufacturing costs in order to survive? Otherwise maybe they would have had to do major staffing cuts.
Accountants and doctors do outsource, but they are also in professions that get away with certain fee levels. You don't see doctors and accountants (generally) having coupons or fire sales--because they don't have to. They're one of the big three--doctors, lawyers, accountants. And these professions generally don't lose out no matter what is happening in the world.
I do know that wasn't the case. They were more popular than ever when they started this. And as for "they would have had to do major staffing cuts .." please pay attention. They DID major staffing cuts. Do you think they held onto the people in America who USED TO manufacture their goods for them and paid them to do nothing??
Actually you are WRONG about that. LMAO. So naïve! They ARE losing out. Doctors are making less and less due to insurance companies and HMOs controlling and tightening up fees. Who's winning? The executives of those companies, not the doctors. Accountants are just devaluing their professions. I predict soon enough the Indians, etc., will begin their own companies to compete with them doing taxes directly for Americans at cheaper prices. The American Bar Association approved legal work being done offshore by people who weren't educated in American law schools or passed the bar in this country. What are American attorneys and law firms facing now? Stiff competition from legal service bureaus. Yeah, they used to do the scut work of discovery, document review, etc. FOR the law firms on the sly and the law firms would pay them cheaply and mark up the fees and pass it on to the clients, now they are going after the law firms' clients directly OR the clients are waking up to what the law firms are doing and not paying the big markup. Don't believe me? Then keep your eyes closed. Look up Pangea3 of India for example. That's just one of hundreds. There's thousands more coming.
Have you ever even been to a developing country? Well, I have. It's a whole other world out there. Your hard working wonderful people turn their heads at babies begging on the streets that they full well know are put there by adults to make money for them. Nobody cares.
Yes I've been to several developing countries and I lived in Asia for a couple of years. What did I see? People who understood the importance of a job, any job, to keep them in food and shelter. It's a simple relationship that we Americans have forgotten.
But I was really referring more to the kind of people who come to America seeking a better life. You know, our ancestors (except for native Americans). These people are typically harder working and more willing to put up with less so that their children will have better opportunities later.
Yes I've been to several developing countries and I lived in Asia for a couple of years. What did I see? People who understood the importance of a job, any job, to keep them in food and shelter. It's a simple relationship that we Americans have forgotten.
But I was really referring more to the kind of people who come to America seeking a better life. You know, our ancestors (except for native Americans). These people are typically harder working and more willing to put up with less so that their children will have better opportunities later.
Let's be real for a second, okay?
They are also trapped by the contract of the H1b.
They know that if they lose the job, they're expected to be on the plane back home ASAP, because the job is the only reason for them being in this country.
With that kind of leverage hanging over their heads that a citizen does not have, there's plenty of room for abuse, unpaid OT that they deserve, etc., if the employer wants it. They are also not free to move around from employer to employer. It is hard for them to do so.
And there has been lots of abuse of H1b workers by employers in America, that's for sure.
This discussion is all about blaming the employers. People are claiming there are millions of qualified applicants, but these greedy nasty employers deliberately bypass them in favor of underpaid foreigners flooding in to take away our jobs.
Not true! No employer wants to outsource or hire in foreigners who have a language barrier, culture barrier, expenses and liabilities associated with a work visa, etc.
Employers would greatly prefer to have someone local, someone familiar and easy to communicate with, someone they go to church with. The problem is, it's impossible to find such people.
I'd warrant that no one reading this has ever had to hire anybody, has no clue what it's like from the point of view of someone trying to get work done and unable to find qualified, hard working, humble, honest people to help out. Hint: they don't exist anymore in this country.
Instead what one gets is a depressing succession of people with substance abuse problems, people with an entitlement mentality who would sue their employer at a moment's notice, who try to get away with the bare minimum effort needed to not get fired, who steal and lie whenever it benefits them to do so, who might suddenly quit and leave you in the lurch no matter how nicely you treat them.
People from developing countries don't have as many of these decadent ways, they seem more willing to work very hard and invest themselves into the company with loyalty and pride in their work and respect for authority. This is the type of person who made this a great country. Not the lazy entitled ones, who are basically leeches and parasites, but the hard working ones who you might call naive and foolish for trusting the employer. But guess what. At the end of the day, that's the kind of person who took us to the moon and back.
There are plenty of jobs out there for people willing to work hard. You can go to the oil fields of North Dakota and make $80K driving a truck, $40K washing dishes, etc. It's an oil boom up there. It seems that a lot of folks would rather sit around and complain about their lot in life, than get off their lazy duffs and do something about it. I have no patience for such people. And I have no patience for those who say such people deserve anything more than the poverty in which they prefer to wallow.
Blisterpeanuts...ARE YOU EFFING SERIOUS??
If you want loyalty from your employees, how about showing THEM a little loyalty?
The average worker goes in now, knowing every single day could be his last day, that his boss might pink-slip him at the drop of a hat. so what do you honestly expect?
You expect loyalty from your people, but show them none in return?
Doesn't work that way.
You are as much as admitting, blisterpeanuts...that employers WANT only people that they can walk all over, treat like dirt, and then throw into the street when they are done with them.
Well, I know that, as a business owner myself (I currently have no employees - my work volume does not justify it) - when I need an employee, I want to attract the best and brightest...and I want to retain them for a long time. So I will show them loyalty and treat them right.
They will EARN every nickel they get from me...but it will be the best damn job that person ever had, too.
Loyalty and hard work go both ways. If you want more than a minimum effort out of your people...then you gotta show them more than the bare minimum in terms of pay and loyalty.
Do you HONESTLY EXPECT a person to give maximum effort and loyalty to an employer who treats them like dirt, pays them lousy, and who might throw them out in the street at a moment's notice...all to raise the stock price by a quarter-point? Get real.
The H1B workers you refer to...they are bound to one employer only...and are bound by a sword over their head, and have to constantly fear their employer - but I guess that's the kind of employee you want. One who is afraid of you and who therefore won't rock the boat when you treat them like dirt.
Me, I'd rather an employee who likes his job and the company...and who gives his maximum effort, because he is truly happy with his job. I want the best and brightest - and once I get that best and brightest, I want them to stay with me. Different philosophy.
Betcha I get better results than you. It might take me a time or three to find that right person...but it will be worth it.
This discussion is all about blaming the employers. People are claiming there are millions of qualified applicants, but these greedy nasty employers deliberately bypass them in favor of underpaid foreigners flooding in to take away our jobs.
Not true! No employer wants to outsource or hire in foreigners who have a language barrier, culture barrier, expenses and liabilities associated with a work visa, etc.
Employers would greatly prefer to have someone local, someone familiar and easy to communicate with, someone they go to church with. The problem is, it's impossible to find such people.
I'd warrant that no one reading this has ever had to hire anybody, has no clue what it's like from the point of view of someone trying to get work done and unable to find qualified, hard working, humble, honest people to help out. Hint: they don't exist anymore in this country.
Instead what one gets is a depressing succession of people with substance abuse problems, people with an entitlement mentality who would sue their employer at a moment's notice, who try to get away with the bare minimum effort needed to not get fired, who steal and lie whenever it benefits them to do so, who might suddenly quit and leave you in the lurch no matter how nicely you treat them.
People from developing countries don't have as many of these decadent ways, they seem more willing to work very hard and invest themselves into the company with loyalty and pride in their work and respect for authority. This is the type of person who made this a great country. Not the lazy entitled ones, who are basically leeches and parasites, but the hard working ones who you might call naive and foolish for trusting the employer. But guess what. At the end of the day, that's the kind of person who took us to the moon and back.
There are plenty of jobs out there for people willing to work hard. You can go to the oil fields of North Dakota and make $80K driving a truck, $40K washing dishes, etc. It's an oil boom up there. It seems that a lot of folks would rather sit around and complain about their lot in life, than get off their lazy duffs and do something about it. I have no patience for such people. And I have no patience for those who say such people deserve anything more than the poverty in which they prefer to wallow.
Try it and see how long you last. My former neighbor did because he couldn't find a job in Portland. He was a young strong healthy guy and lasted about three months in those oil fields. It's very hard work. That's why it pays so much. There is a huge turn over. They don't expect anyone to stay for a long period of time. I don't know about washing dishes but I doubt how steady a job that is.
It's so easy to preach to others from your comfortable perch. Try being out of work in your fifties and competing against new college grads and seeing how easy that is. There are not plenty of jobs out there for those who are willing to work. Quit your job tomorrow and see how easy it would be to find one if you really believe that.
I am not blaming employers. I have worked on the hiring end and have seen a few deadbeats come through wanting something for nothing so I know how it works on both sides. I also know it's a tough world out there for both job seekers and those who have the jobs to give. But to all job seekers are irresponsible because they are lazy or unqualified or lazy entitled parasites to work is ridiculous. How many of these do you know? The ones of that type I interviewed in my hiring position were few and far between. Most job candidates I saw came across as potentially very good workers. I wished I could have hired them all.
Company: Aerotek Scientific
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Category: Scientific Jobs Rate: $10.00 to $12.00 per Hour (would you like fries with those results)
Job Type: Contract-to-Hire
Posting ID: 2953193
Posting Date: 11/19/2013 Allegis Group Family of Hiring Companies
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Entry Level Chemist Job Description:
Aerotek Scientific is currently seeking entry-level chemist with a background in sciences.
Requirements: -BS Degree in Chemistry, Biology or other Science
-Basic analytical testing.
-QC testing ability/knowledge.
-Documentation & Data Analysis.
Qualified candidates that MEET these requirements should apply directly to job posting.
Required Skills for Entry Level Chemist Job:
■CHEMISTRY
■LAB TECHNICIAN
■LAB TEST INSTRUMENTS
■LAB TEST
■BIOLOGICAL SCIENCE
About Aerotek Scientific:
If this is the model businesses are moving towards, they're going to go out of business. 10-12$ an hour is alright if all you have is a HS Diploma, but a BS? That money wont even pay back the student loans, let alone get you anywhere in life.
It used to be corporations had long vision, had five, ten and even twenty-year plans. Nowadays, their vision extends only as far as the next quarterly stock report. and THAT...is what is wrong with American business these days.
And don't expect it to change any time soon. The execs only listen to the investors...and the investors are only there to make a quick buck and get out. In a word, I'll tell you what happened, and what went wrong with American business: Day traders. These are the bottom-feeding scum that go in, buy up shares, make decisions that make a short-term gain, and then get the freak out of Dodge before the bottom falls out. And then go on to the next company and wash, rinse, repeat. and it is the workers who often feel the pain of the fallout when it happens.
Used to be investors invested for the long term. Not anymore. They want a quick ROI, and then to get out and jump on the next quick ROI opportunity they see. They are true vultures.
Eh. I would argue that it goes well beyond the USA. You are right about the planning though. Some of this you cannot totally blame on them as technology keeps advancing and the funding becomes easier and easier. Technology has displaced entire companies and no one thought "outside the box" so to speak.
Entire business plans have eroded due to a lack of foresight.
Day traders I wouldn't exactly blame either heck I might do that myself. No one forces a business to go public though. It used to be to raise funds but now that can be done without it. I wouldn't blame the game I would blame the player. John Maynard Kenyes said "In the long run everyone is dead"
In many cases there are no real traders anymore. Just automatic software. The number of on the floor traders is about half of what it was a decade ago. There's a book called Automate This which details much of it. Any investor can put in terms to automatically do xyz when a stock gets to be a certain level. Buy/sell etc The REAL problem with this is that if it's making these actions on stock price alone that can make some serious mistakes. Volatility of one stock can transfer to another. There's entire sectors say automotive with ford, gm, visteon, delphi, etc or intel, microsoft, dell etc that can move in tandem. Trying to tie this into commodities also doesn't work well. Oil and Exxonmobil can look a bit the same but the oil is much more extreme with highs and lows
I'll share this. It isn't exactly that hard to determine where some stock prices go.
Futures usually tell where a stock index is going
Options tell more specifics of what insiders are trying to do
After hours trades tell just that.
So if you find high after hours volume and can find a fair amount of activity on the options that might tell you something. Cross reference that with who owns it and if those companies need to re capitalize for whatever reasons. In many cases a sky high stock has come back to earth and back (Netflix and Apple come to mind). Since companies can own other companies partially or entirely this makes it even more complicated.
Then there was a guy that typed b (billion) instead of m (million) Stock Selloff May Have Been Triggered by a Trader Error this wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that the drop in p&g of 50% in 2000 contributed to the market fall that year.
There are other forms of investments that some might consider odd like viatical settlements and tax lien certificates.
If you want loyalty from your employees, how about showing THEM a little loyalty?
The average worker goes in now, knowing every single day could be his last day, that his boss might pink-slip him at the drop of a hat. so what do you honestly expect?
You expect loyalty from your people, but show them none in return?
Doesn't work that way.
You are as much as admitting, blisterpeanuts...that employers WANT only people that they can walk all over, treat like dirt, and then throw into the street when they are done with them.
Well, I know that, as a business owner myself (I currently have no employees - my work volume does not justify it) - when I need an employee, I want to attract the best and brightest...and I want to retain them for a long time. So I will show them loyalty and treat them right.
They will EARN every nickel they get from me...but it will be the best damn job that person ever had, too.
Loyalty and hard work go both ways. If you want more than a minimum effort out of your people...then you gotta show them more than the bare minimum in terms of pay and loyalty.
Do you HONESTLY EXPECT a person to give maximum effort and loyalty to an employer who treats them like dirt, pays them lousy, and who might throw them out in the street at a moment's notice...all to raise the stock price by a quarter-point? Get real.
The H1B workers you refer to...they are bound to one employer only...and are bound by a sword over their head, and have to constantly fear their employer - but I guess that's the kind of employee you want. One who is afraid of you and who therefore won't rock the boat when you treat them like dirt.
Me, I'd rather an employee who likes his job and the company...and who gives his maximum effort, because he is truly happy with his job. I want the best and brightest - and once I get that best and brightest, I want them to stay with me. Different philosophy.
Betcha I get better results than you. It might take me a time or three to find that right person...but it will be worth it.
One of the best posts in this thread!
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