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Old 12-10-2013, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
453 posts, read 520,570 times
Reputation: 666

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocaseco View Post
But theres the difference. You might be an excellent wordsmith and master of the language. But what do you know about the Kenexa HR system that scans 1200 resumes a minute, archives and ranks based on a unique score derived from a proprietary algorithm?
Enough to have overhauled my resume to include an increased number of appropriate keywords. I've read up on this stuff, and I used to work in an HR department. I won't claim to be an expert on the algorithms used for resume evaluation and sorting, but I'm no stranger to the fact that they exist.

And it doesn't matter how many of the right words are on your resume if the spelling and grammar suck and there's no sense that the applicant understands how to use punctuation. Unless the computerized system is also going to do the interviewing and then manage new employees, at some point a human being is going to be reading your resume and deciding whether or not to hire you.

Quote:
A resume expert knows how to game the system and write well, upping your chances that a real person ever even looks at your resume. They know what the program will key on and what will cause it to pass. For professional positions, there is no excuse for not having a professional resume done.
That depends on what you're calling "professional" and I can think of one good reason why someone wouldn't: Lack of money to pay for it. Another might well be that the person in question actually knows how to write one well enough.

I've had my recently-overhauled resume read by a friend who happens to be a professional resume writer. He gave it two thumbs-up and suggested only one minor change. Note that I'm not suggesting that I'm an expert myself. However, for people who aren't looking to hire an expert on resumes, I can certainly do quite a bit with regard to grammar, spelling, punctuation, formatting and general style.
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Old 12-10-2013, 07:30 PM
 
278 posts, read 243,052 times
Reputation: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
Why are you cracking up?

If that is the case it is probably due to lawsuits. Employers want to know a little bit about the person they are hiring. They want to know they have been active in something else apart from work. A person without interest is likely to be a boring employee as well.

Why do I want to know that, because social compatibility is important to create a good work culture.
Its because its tacky and inappropriate. Believe it or not Americans dont sue at the drop of a hat.
Its a judgment call, but in most scenarios, its considered bad form. Your work should speak for itself. Your law firm doesnt care if you were the beach volleyball champ at your college frat. Its fine to have a personlity - thats why people who are engaging and personable ace job interviews.

Last edited by HeyHowdy; 12-10-2013 at 07:31 PM.. Reason: Typos
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Old 12-10-2013, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
453 posts, read 520,570 times
Reputation: 666
Ah, I think I see the problem here: Most people apparently don't have any hobbies outside of their college frat volleyball games?

If that's true, then no wonder listing my hobbies on my resume actually gets me positive results. Mine actually reflect the fact that I have mature interests and enjoy intellectual pursuits, rather than being stuck at age 20 in perpetuity.
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Old 12-10-2013, 08:06 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,849 posts, read 30,397,094 times
Reputation: 22357
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocaseco View Post
But theres the difference. You might be an excellent wordsmith and master of the language. But what do you know about the Kenexa HR system that scans 1200 resumes a minute, archives and ranks based on a unique score derived from a proprietary algorithm? A resume expert knows how to game the system and write well, upping your chances that a real person ever even looks at your resume. They know what the program will key on and what will cause it to pass. For professional positions, there is no excuse for not having a professional resume done.
For all the technology that these types of systems offer, they do a mighty sucky job at it. I have applied for I don't know HOW MANY jobs that I am highly qualified for, only to be told that "I'm sorry you're not qualified". The taleo system is the worst. But I have also experienced this while trying to apply to Expedia.com and John Q. Hammonds. Honest to god, I tried to apply to a LAUNDRY position in the housekeeping department of one of the Hammond's hotels and they told me I wasn't qualified. I've worked in housekeeping departments for years, managed laundries and the housekeeping departments for resorts. And yes, I've actually worked in laundries too, if I am not qualified, no one is.

I guess it was a good thing that I did not get the job because I really didn't want it. I was hoping that if I could get into the system that I could move up the ladder to management. Maybe the automated HR system's algorithm figured that out from my application. ya think?

20yrsinBranson
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:47 PM
 
1,115 posts, read 2,000,854 times
Reputation: 2111
Very interesting discussion so far. It was most interesting to see people divided over my last topic, of including personal information on a resume. My stance is that it's risky, and you usually want to avoid taking risks. Maybe it will work for one employer, but maybe it will turn another off. It's best to keep it professional, not personal. Like I said though, I can see this potentially capturing some employer's eyes but whether you're willing to take that gamble or not is the big question

That being said, I do agree there's definitely a ton of value to being a well rounded individual with a good personality. Fitting in with company culture is a huge aspect of job hunting these days, (many job fillings are decided entirely around who meshes best with the team on personal levels) but in my experience the resume is not the place to show that. Let those things come out in interviews, which should be conversational anyway, not just Q&A. Use your resume to say, Here's what I've done that's awesome, Here's what I can do that will be awesome for you, and Here's my professional skills and experience. Make it neat, nail the grammar on the head, make it pristine, make it shine. Only once you got past that barrier where you proved you have the skills and professionalism for the job, then you can let the personality come out in the subsequent interviews.

All and all, I see the resume as a professional representation, not a personal representation. Your resume should represent your professional approach and attitude, which is why things like grammar, format, succinctness are all very important. If the person has poor grammar, it gives the impression you are lazy, don't pay attention to detail, or just plain don't know how to spell or use proper punctuation (and trust me those people exist). Use sloppy formatting or styling, it gives the impression your work is sloppy. As others have said, perhaps some day I will move up into a hiring manager position and you can bet sloppy resumes or resumes with grammatical errors are going right in the trash. It just gives me the impression you don't care enough to get this job, even if it is "just a silly old resume that everyone has to do". Do it good!
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:49 PM
 
6,436 posts, read 9,970,590 times
Reputation: 8006
This thread is a prime example of why people hate HR's. You would reject a perfectly good and experienced applicant on the basis of tiny grammatical errors and mistakes they made on their resume.
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:08 PM
 
1,115 posts, read 2,000,854 times
Reputation: 2111
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
This thread is a prime example of why people hate HR's. You would reject a perfectly good and experienced applicant on the basis of tiny grammatical errors and mistakes they made on their resume.
Apparently good and experienced despite the fact the applicant can't show the effort and take the time to make sure his resume is grammatically correct? No, he isn't perfectly good and experienced in my book! That's just lazy!
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:20 PM
 
1,115 posts, read 2,000,854 times
Reputation: 2111
Quote:
Originally Posted by HansProof View Post
I like to see pictures


Fact, I think it kind of weird anyone saying they don't.
Pictures are a terrible thing to include. Here's some reason why:

1. LinkedIn. Most people should have a LinkedIn Profile these days. They should have a nice picture of themselves on their LinkedIn profile. If an employer really wants to see your picture so badly, HE/SHE WILL look at your LinkedIn and find it. Or just google your name and find all your Facebook, Social Media photos... etc

2. Appearance should never be a factor in hiring. (At least in most positions, obviously models for example must have attractive or appropriate proportions) For the other 95% of jobs out there, your appearance should never matter, and including a picture can force a bias onto the hiring team. This bias can be negative. (more on this in my next point) Also back to what I first said, why should your appearance EVER matter? Here's the answer, it shouldn't!

3. Unfair judgements can be made about you based on your appearance. Everyone knows the saying, a picture is worth a thousand words. Well, it's true, and a photo on your resume is saying a thousand words about you. Those thousand words it's saying are going to be different to every single person who looks at your photo on your resume, and yep, there's a very good chance your photo might say not so good things about you. For whatever reasons, people look at a photo and sense associations with that photo. They may look at a photo of a person and very well say things like "This person looks shady", "This person looks lazy", or even like "This person looks like someone that wouldn't be cut out for this job or wouldn't fit in with this organization". Next thing you know, your photo has by itself destroyed all your chances of ever getting that job. You may be the greatest guy in the world, but if someone on the team looks at your photo and maybe says, "this guy looks creepy", it's over for you! Let people meet you in person, get to know you first so they can pair your personality with your appearance. Showing just your appearance is a recipe for disaster.
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Old 12-11-2013, 01:34 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
27,414 posts, read 15,827,676 times
Reputation: 9903
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
As someone that back in my corporate days, hired hundreds of people, and read thousands of resumes, I can tell you that being an Eagle Scout has no place on a resume. Who cares. You may think it is a great accomplishment, but should only be on a resume if you are applying for something to do with boy scouts.
I do, I did something only 3% of those who enter the scouting program ever do and that is earn the rank of Eagle Scout. I will be an eagle til the day I die and proud of it. It is intensive to become an Eagle Scout and not some easy cupcake path. If you want underwater basket-weaving, goto college for that. Being an Eagle takes nearly a year of work for the project itself. We aren't even including the time you need to be in an active role for the troop as well as a leadership role. You have to earn 21 merit badges including 10 mandated ones, and live the scout oath and law in everyday life. IE: have good morals (something companies look for.)

Earning the rank of Eagle Scout is almost as intensive as earning a degree with a thesis. The project goes through several steps even before you actually get to formally propose it to your troop and then put into place and contacting the local businesses and community to see if they can help. I have a binder with well over 100 pages that I can show what I did for this. It was as intensive as any college course I ever took. Boy Scouting it in itself maybe some "activity" but becoming an Eagle Scout or getting voted in and getting inducted into the Order of the Arrow is not. It is an honor that one should be proud of.

I recognize that many people don't know about the scouting program anymore due to kids doing other things or the negativity of the gay issue but it is a legitimate program for boys (or girls through girl scouts, explorers, venture, ect.) to learn and grow the same as being on a high school or independent sports team. Those aren't exactly hobbies if one becomes a leader, me I held many different leadership positions while being a boy scout and helped cement my decision to be a management major in college. Does boy scout experience count as management experience, no (mainly because of ignorance IMO) but going through a program from beginning to end like i did show a form dedication one would like to see from their employee and if they would be open to learn about it, they could always give me an interview and I'll explain it to them.
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Old 12-11-2013, 04:08 AM
 
4,586 posts, read 4,628,789 times
Reputation: 4358
Read this little article:
LinkedIn: Bosses don't want to hear you're responsible | Internet & Media - CNET News

So, on one hand we don't know how to list our experiences and accomplishments, and on the other we're also limited on the words we can/should use.

I think HR folks need to start acting like they hire PEOPLE, and not robots.
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