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Old 01-12-2014, 07:50 PM
 
400 posts, read 1,317,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
Many employers/supervisors/managers/business owners are petty and vindictive. Many love giving out negative references and some unemployed people wonder why they aren't landing jobs.

I have actually witnessed an owner of a small company literally berate and bully an employee, set him up for failure and then ask HR to terminate the employee. I have unofficially given that man a reference to help him get another job. This was a man who had worked for the company for ten years that was treated like a dog by the owner. This man could have easily sued for some of the treatment that he received.
the first part of what you said is soooooo true
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Old 01-12-2014, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Chicago area
8,788 posts, read 13,274,979 times
Reputation: 15907
Quote:
Originally Posted by calipoppy View Post
Many employers/supervisors/managers/business owners are petty and vindictive. Many love giving out negative references and some unemployed people wonder why they aren't landing jobs.

I have actually witnessed an owner of a small company literally berate and bully an employee, set him up for failure and then ask HR to terminate the employee. I have unofficially given that man a reference to help him get another job. This was a man who had worked for the company for ten years that was treated like a dog by the owner. This man could have easily sued for some of the treatment that he received.
A lot of sociopaths rise to power in US businesses. It is not unusual. That is why you should have a service or friend check your references if you have any doubts whatsoever. If they do badmouth you a cease and desist letter will usually scare some sense into them as they are typically cowards.
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Old 01-12-2014, 09:49 PM
 
24,503 posts, read 35,416,311 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80 View Post
A lot of sociopaths rise to power in US businesses. It is not unusual. That is why you should have a service or friend check your references if you have any doubts whatsoever. If they do badmouth you a cease and desist letter will usually scare some sense into them as they are typically cowards.
Perhaps. But the number of sociopaths that rise to power in US businesses are miniscule compared to those who are weeded out. The same applies to incompetent people. A lot of them rise to power. But the number is such a small fraction compared to the number of incompetent people in and out of the workforce as a whole.
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Old 01-12-2014, 10:17 PM
 
1,305 posts, read 1,318,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angrymillionaire View Post
Do you guys list references on the very first application form? Or later on in the hiring process?

Also when is the candidate checked? Right after they apply or later after interview?
Always put down available upon request.
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Old 01-12-2014, 10:35 PM
 
24,503 posts, read 35,416,311 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosie_hair View Post
Always put down available upon request.
Agree with this. At least for white collar positions, this is the accepted practice.
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Old 01-13-2014, 12:06 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
416 posts, read 739,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacktothefuture View Post
Managers - How hard would you look into a resume to see if it was all in order. I'm talking about fake references etc
As a hiring manager, I do not personally look into a resume.

The commercial bank I work for has a specific division of Corporate Security that does this. They pretty much screen EVERYTHING about your resume, and will grill you on any oddities or irregularities.

Anything that is off an unacceptable amount, and the candidate is immediately removed from consideration.

We're not talking putting June vs. July type of thing. It need to be multiple month inaccuracies, gross misstatements of responsibilities, title, etc.
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Old 01-13-2014, 03:35 AM
 
Location: U.S.A., Earth
4,487 posts, read 2,876,126 times
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I don't lie on resumes. That said, I won't be completely honest either, as being too honest can also hurt your chances too. I'll change my resume and say my objective is to become a floor manager even though I'm neutral about it.

Don't lie about things that can be verified...
1) employment dates, with what company, salary
A call to a former employer will verify these things. I've been told in exit interviews/briefings that they don't want lawsuits for 'slandering', so those are the only things they'll answer there.

I've seen some posts that this salary be "fudged"... Unless you got paid through some non-conventional means, a simple accounting check will verify this. Now, I'll also NOT lie, while giving info that can be incorrect. For example, I've gotten several raises at one company, and I won't lose too much sleep if my salary leaving the company was something like $42,178, and I said $42,000... I don't feel like going through back payroll documents just to find this one small thing.

2) education, certifications
Also verifiable. May be especially important if the job requires a degree or such

I've seen one job where they require some CISCO certification that's no longer being offered... the hardware that the cert is for has been phased out, no longer used.
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:17 AM
 
1,006 posts, read 1,867,340 times
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If you are qualified to do the job, and the lack of some technical piece of information is stopping you, I'd say lie as needed. Worst case you don't get the job and you are in the same position as if you didn't apply because you didn't meet the requirement. While there is a lot of checking that goes on, most of it can be beat. Most people advocate for not lying simply because they can't play it well. But if you are good at going with the situation and thinking on your feet, and you otherwise know how to do the job, then do what you need. if it makes you better able to justify it, I feel most companies would lie to their staff in a heartbeat, no matter how they spin it.
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Old 01-13-2014, 11:55 AM
 
473 posts, read 644,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocaseco View Post
If you are qualified to do the job, and the lack of some technical piece of information is stopping you, I'd say lie as needed. Worst case you don't get the job and you are in the same position as if you didn't apply because you didn't meet the requirement. While there is a lot of checking that goes on, most of it can be beat. Most people advocate for not lying simply because they can't play it well. But if you are good at going with the situation and thinking on your feet, and you otherwise know how to do the job, then do what you need. if it makes you better able to justify it, I feel most companies would lie to their staff in a heartbeat, no matter how they spin it.
Yeah, the only reason some of us don't recommend lying is because we aren't smart enough to pull it off No way ethics could explain it. Again, I don't think anyone here has argued that companies don't lie. It really just comes down to whether your ethics are contigent on the ethics of the other party. Mine are not
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Old 01-13-2014, 12:44 PM
 
1,006 posts, read 1,867,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85rx-7gsl-se View Post
It really just comes down to whether your ethics are contigent on the ethics of the other party. Mine are not
Yeah mine are definitely motivated by getting what I want, especially with regards to a job if I didn't have one.

And let's face it, some people are poor liars. When pushed on an issue they would collapse. These are the same people who self incriminate with the police. While it may not be right, the willingness to lie in business is directly proportional to how far you will go. Look at the guys that are running any F500 company, think they lied along the way and to take advantage of a weaker opponent, a better deal or a faster buck?
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