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Old 01-17-2014, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
8,846 posts, read 13,345,933 times
Reputation: 16052

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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
When you hire, you can use whatever criteria you want.

When other people hire, they will use their criteria. There have been studies done where hiring managers clearly indicated that personality is an informal criteria. If there are 2 candidates who can do the job but one of them creeps you out, guess who will get the job?

Hiring managers are still people and human interaction is still somewhat important.
That's fine if you want to be shallow be shallow. You are not doing your company any favors by passing over the best qualified candidates for a drinking budy and if I was a company owner and found out one of my managers was not hiring the best qualified candidate I'd remove them from hiring authority. Just don't whine about the quality of your employees when you don't select for competence and play psyche games and turn the interview into a junior high popularity contest.
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Old 01-17-2014, 10:20 AM
 
8,775 posts, read 10,886,644 times
Reputation: 12827
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80 View Post
and if I was a company owner and found out one of my managers was not hiring the best qualified candidate I'd remove them from hiring authority. Just don't whine about the quality of your employees when you don't select for competence and play psyche games and turn the interview into a junior high popularity contest.
My last interview (this job) the hiring "manager" was more interested in my personal life than my skill set! I kid you not. Maybe she thinks where I came from & what I'm doing where I'm at is important to her, but it's only her small mindedness that was most apparent. The psych games really are more indicative of what's in their mind--or lack thereof !
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Old 01-17-2014, 10:24 AM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
13,343 posts, read 17,459,857 times
Reputation: 19655
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80 View Post
That's fine if you want to be shallow be shallow. You are not doing your company any favors by passing over the best qualified candidates for a drinking budy and if I was a company owner and found out one of my managers was not hiring the best qualified candidate I'd remove them from hiring authority. Just don't whine about the quality of your employees when you don't select for competence and play psyche games and turn the interview into a junior high popularity contest.

All else being equal, what if one additional requirement for the best qualified candidate is: likeability?
It's akin to the NBA, a player may be great but a team may not sign him because he'll ruin their team chemistry.
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Old 01-17-2014, 10:31 AM
 
2,034 posts, read 2,251,434 times
Reputation: 1515
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwiley View Post
I am sorry as this may come off as a rant, as I have been interviewing people for the last 2 weeks, and I am frustrated.

Over the last few years I have been interviewing and hiring people for jobs in mortgage banking and accounting, and almost every set of interviews I have people that I interview that just do not seem to get it. Now I am not talking about showing up a few minutes early or dressing nicely, but instead I am talking about attitudes and ways some approach interviews.

Things I wish people would understand when interviewing.

While your college education or background can be very important, and you may be able to bring a new approach to the way things are done, it is never a good idea to tell the interviewer that the way they do things is out of date and have to be changed. Sorry but sometimes there are reasons that things are done certain ways, things are done different in the real world and even in different areas than others simply due to client expectations or business climate.

While the job title may lead you to believe you understand exactly what the job is, read the job description and take the time to listen to the interviewer to figure out if it is a job you want and can do. Job titles are different between companies and while the basic job maybe the same, the overall duties can and do range pretty drastically.

Understand that most of us do not like to interview a bunch of people, we do not have the want or time to spend getting to know people to find what we hope will be a good employee. Just like you we find it a chore, and most of us have been through the process numerous times on both sides and do not like being the one to say no. We would love if the 1st applicant we got was the perfect fit, but it does not work that way, instead we have to spend way to many hours sorting through everything to ensure we make the right hire.

Personality is important, like it or not if we do not like you or do not believe what you are telling us you will not get the job. That being said do not be fake, be yourself, usually most of us have been interviewing long enough that we can tell when you are fake, and that means no job anyways.

Be careful how you treat people, in mortgages often the receptionist also acts as a personal assistant to the managers when they need help. The person calling you could be the manager, it could be the owner, it could be the receptionist, it could be an HR rep, you do not know, but if you treat that person badly or have an attitude, than your job prospects could take a serious hit.

Be clear to yourself and to your interviewers on what you are looking for, saying I just need a job does not cut it. Saying it will work for now is a terrible idea, and even worse saying that you parents say you need a job right now is even worse. Saying you just want to get into that career field is also not a great idea. Even if the job is an entry level job, we want to believe that you will be happy coming in and working hard.

Understand even if you do know everything we do not believe that you know everything, otherwise why would you be looking for a job, this is my biggest pet peeve. Believe it or not that to me is a red flag, which indicates a person who does not think they have anything to learn, or even worse someone who really does know everything they need to but has a bad attitude that caused them to be looking for a job today. I do not know everything there is to know about my job, nobody does, but I have hired and will usually prefer to hire those that are not even fully qualified but can show they understand their weaknesses and convince me that they will put in the work to fix those weaknesses.

Maybe even others in a hiring position can add to this, as I wish people would stop reading articles on the internet and go back to learning basic interview skills. Personally it makes me laugh when I see someone that is sitting out in the parking lot because they are 12 minutes early and the experts tell them to only be 10 minutes early, it also drives me crazy when I can pick up that someone has read too many of those articles.
If this is what people are doing on job interviews, no wonder they are having problems landing a job.
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Old 01-17-2014, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Stuck on the East Coast, hoping to head West
3,785 posts, read 9,266,453 times
Reputation: 7365
Strangely enough I've worked with very single "bad" applicant described. Go figure.
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Old 01-17-2014, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
8,846 posts, read 13,345,933 times
Reputation: 16052
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Sure, maybe on the line at some factory personality is not important, but in many settings, personality is extremely important, and even more so than actual objective skills to a certian point because skills can be taught, whereas personality cannot be changed.

A person with a poor personality, no matter how skilled and talented, is a poison to a work group.
You are confusing good behavior with a personality you like. A person who is able to behave in a professional fashion is not a poison to a group. If someone is being rude, abrassive, condescending or arrogant that is bad behavior and indeed a poison. If someone is introverted but works hard and is very competent then that may be a personality one doesn't like but it is not a poison. If one is only able to work with people one would want to hang out with after work then in fact that person is the poison.
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:05 AM
 
2,283 posts, read 3,121,465 times
Reputation: 3664
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80 View Post
You are confusing good behavior with a personality you like. A person who is able to behave in a professional fashion is not a poison to a group. If someone is being rude, abrassive, condescending or arrogant that is bad behavior and indeed a poison. If someone is introverted but works hard and is very competent then that may be a personality one doesn't like but it is not a poison. If one is only able to work with people one would want to hang out with after work then in fact that person is the poison.
And the OP only said that personality was important. Not that they needed to be a "drinking buddy" - you're the one that threw that in there.

For many roles, personality and likeability are very important. Many of the jobs I hire for have a heavy team contributor component - in these, a peer panel interview is used to weed out those that get past the phone screen stage. If the rest of the team likes them from a personality and functional ability standpoint, they move on to the final interview with me.

Solves the vast majority of the interpersonal conflict drama that represents 25% of the threads on this forum, and gives my employees somewhat of a vested interest in the new hire's success. Not many of them hang out together after work, but the office environment is highly engaged and not sidetracked by petty political games.

So, yes, personality is important.
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:16 AM
 
Location: JobHuntingHacker.com
928 posts, read 865,125 times
Reputation: 1825
I don't know about this post. While the gist of it is valid, it is also a little jaded. As a matter of fact I was reading the blog of a recruiter regarding the use of Taleo, which we all love so much. The blogger/job recruiter was very funny in slamming Taleo so I decided to read the rest of her blog. It quickly became obvious just how jaded and bitter that person was. Every post was laced with profanity and making fun of candidates who had submitted resumes to the recruiter. Now granted, the examples that were posted were really ridiculous, but I can't help but wonder if all that bitterness and jadedness are also projected onto candidates who are actually qualified.

The OP's post seems to be this way. It's like the OP has so many negative experiences with unqualified candidates that when a qualified one is presented, they will be looked on with the same jadedness and bias. It just rubs off.
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:20 AM
 
15,400 posts, read 17,690,462 times
Reputation: 13538
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwiley View Post
...Personally it makes me laugh when I see someone that is sitting out in the parking lot because they are 12 minutes early and the experts tell them to only be 10 minutes early...
This is way too nitpicky, IMO.
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Eastern Colorado
3,768 posts, read 4,653,205 times
Reputation: 4899
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguydownsouth View Post
It is nice to hear opinions/observations from the other side of the table. But you also have to consider a few things when in a hiring position, especially in OUR field.




Listen to YOUR interviewees, they are telling you how the market is. If you find that people are telling you that you are out of date then you need to listen. The job MARKET will have a problem filling your role because you are not current....just as you would expect potential employees to stay up to date, they expect you too. I have turned away jobs before that still use DOS and Green screen systems because in the long run it would hurt my prospects to not stay current. The younger generation will actually have to work harder to revert back to older technology. Listen to the job market.
I am well aware that I do not know all the trendy things going on, but I have had someone give me a speech on how they refuse to work in an office that is not paperless. Like it or not I have several quality control standards that must be met, one of which is me taking a paper copy of the return to store to go over line by line to ensure there is not a mistake. Sure I could do it on the computer, but I prefer reading paper. Our returns over the last 3 years have had a 0.25% error rate, which is much better than the industry average.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguydownsouth View Post
This is a huge issue in the job market today. Employers are no longer willing to train employees. Every job is different and odds are your business doesnt function like any other business out there. Each system is unique, and even the same ERP system can be set up differently between companies. Finance/Accounting people are very intelligent and our analytic abilities allow us to learn new systems quickly. If I were you I would focus on their ability to learn/adopt new concepts rather than their experience alone. You may be turning away amazing candidates simply because their work experience doesnt sound like your desired role.
You are missing my point with this one, it is not about being willing to train, it is about people assuming they know what you want, and never paying attention to what you actually want and need, from your employee. Fact is an accounting assistant position is an entry level position, there is plenty of training going on, but if you are applying for the job and do not realize that I expect my accounting assistants to sort receipts, sit at a computer and do basic data entry, and sit at the front desk when the receptionist is at lunch, than it is not my fault.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguydownsouth View Post
Welcome to the finance industry. We have stereotypical personalities for a reason. We arent salesmen, customer service, Psychologists for a reason. We crunch numbers and analyze transactions. If you are trying to hire people that would be good drinking buddies then youre wasting everyone's time.
That stereo type is funny to me, I have not met many accountants who cannot hold a conversation with people, those that do always seem to struggle if they are not just another guy in a cubical for some corporation.

I am hiring people that can actually speak with clients, I work with small businesses, being able to communicate and having a personality helps with that. These guys do not want to deal with jerks, and they want need a relationship. It has worked very well for me over the last few years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguydownsouth View Post
Ok? What does this have to do with interviewing?
In my opinion the interview starts from the 1st time I respond to your application until I make a job offer. If you are rude to my receptionist when you want a job, than you may be rude to my clients, and I immediately red flag you, cost 1 guy an offer from me this week.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguydownsouth View Post
9/10 employees out there are going to apply for your job because they just want a job. Good luck finding that 1 person who really wants to grow your business for you. Thats just a fact of life.
Of course people want a job because they need it, but only getting into a line of work because your mommy told you to, or complaining about the job before you even get it is not going to get you the job. It is not about growing my business, I am growing fast enough that I have to hire someone, so there is no need there, but I also am not going to hire someone that is going to make everybody miserable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguydownsouth View Post
People are probably over emphasizing their abilities because theyre worried you arent willing to train. So you are saying that you know people dont know everything, therefore you are willing to train people for this role? In which case why worry that candidates past roles arent perfectly in line with what you are hiring for?
Who said I am not willing to trade? In fact 1 of the 2 I am hiring I have to train from basically no knowledge, but than based on the other assumptions you are making throughout this thread I can see why you would have made another without reading what I posted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguydownsouth View Post
The job market sucks and people are wondering why they cant land a job. Of course they are going to seek advice from people on how to interview better. You sound like the exact type of manager that causes people to come on these boards to vent.
I may be that exact guy, because I look past a resume, and hire the person, as for interviewing better, that is why I wrote this. Personally having canned answers is not going to help you interview, but knowing how not to **** off the interviewer is the 1st step to getting a job.
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