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Old 01-22-2014, 10:23 AM
 
4,749 posts, read 3,607,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STT Resident View Post
I understand your point but in this particular instance I have to disagree in context:



That just rubbed me the wrong way. Add to that how we miraculously segued from "people" being from Asia and the Middle East to "women" from those areas.
It can rub you the wrong way - so what? There's truth to it in a lot of cases when we're talking about Asia. Less so in Chinese culture, particularly PRC, but definitely true in Japanese and other (probably not all) Asian cultures. Don't care if it rubs you the wrong way because I know from my own experiences of having lived in Asia and being married into and intimately involved in the cultures. Be offended all you want.

 
Old 01-22-2014, 10:27 AM
 
4,749 posts, read 3,607,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadWarrior12 View Post
No.

I find it ignorant to assume a personality type based on cultural background. That's not "overly PC", it's treating each person as an individual.
It's not a personality type - that's the point. Maybe it was mischaracterized, but the point is, a lot of the immigrants the OP's referring to don't speak up and aren't comfortable socializing in large part because they're locked in their cultures. I agree that it's wrong to say that everyone or even a majority of people necessarily have this problem, but that wasn't his point. His point was that enough people have these issues that it's a noticeable concern, and he wants to know how to address it. If you feel that something's inaccurate, then just refocus the conversation rather than bloviating about how offended you are by the OP, who as anyone can plainly see was not in any way trying to offend.
 
Old 01-22-2014, 10:52 AM
 
2,285 posts, read 3,108,871 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
It's not a personality type - that's the point. Maybe it was mischaracterized, but the point is, a lot of the immigrants the OP's referring to don't speak up and aren't comfortable socializing in large part because they're locked in their cultures. I agree that it's wrong to say that everyone or even a majority of people necessarily have this problem, but that wasn't his point. His point was that enough people have these issues that it's a noticeable concern, and he wants to know how to address it. If you feel that something's inaccurate, then just refocus the conversation rather than bloviating about how offended you are by the OP, who as anyone can plainly see was not in any way trying to offend.
You've got me confused with someone else. I never found the OP's post offensive, just ignorant.
 
Old 01-22-2014, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Utica, NY
1,912 posts, read 2,544,905 times
Reputation: 3200
The problem isn't immigrants - the problem is than American culture values extroversion too much over the actual quality of a person.
 
Old 01-22-2014, 11:09 AM
 
2,540 posts, read 3,473,068 times
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I'm not Asian or Middle-eastern, I immigrated as a child and my English is better than most native speakers - I graduated in Communications and Publishing and wanted to do copywriting or editing for a living. However, I AM painfully shy and reserved, and that together with the already-competitive industry did make it nearly impossible for me to make it through an interview. The whole concept of 'selling yourself' seems stupid to me; they already have your resume, why do they need you to go on and brag about how great you are (extremely embellished in 99% of the cases)? Yet that's what the interviewers want you to do, and when I try, I end up sounding so forced and fake that it sounds like I'm lying even when I'm telling the complete truth! I struggle with a quiet voice and speaking too quickly when I'm nervous, and flat affect, I just can't get my voice to sound clear and confident, I have trouble sounding 'excited' or 'enthusiastic' without it coming off as forced. It's definitely given me a huge disadvantage career-wise; I have done freelance work before, and I come off fantastic on paper, as long as I keep the interaction exclusively to email, and every employer I've ever had had been extremely pleased with my work. But whenever I meet a potential employer in person or even on the phone, all goes out the window. It's extremely frustrating.
 
Old 01-22-2014, 11:13 AM
 
15,407 posts, read 7,873,596 times
Reputation: 7988
I don't think the instructor is a bigot, but I do think he/she is overly generalizing.

I have interviewed and hired people from Asia and the Middle East, all women, and none of them were shy. Practically all were recent immigrants. FWIW, we were hiring people who were bi-lingual in specific languages so that may have played a role, but none of us spoke any language but English so the interviews were entirely in English.

Also, FWIW, I have known personally and professionally a number of Asian women in particular and the majority of them are not shy. They were usually very willing to be vocal and speak up when they needed to be and participate regularly in discussions, many times heated discussions where men were involved so I think that that is just a cultural bias of sorts of us Americans in regards to Asian women in some cultures. Also, I grew up in an area with a lot of Arab immigrants and I went to school from K through 12th grade with a number of kids from Iran and Iraq in particular and none of them were shy and none of their mothers were very shy. They also were proud of their Islamic and Persian heritage and most of them had at least a part time job.

I agree that some women are brought up to be "demure" but once they are here, I don't see that continuing with a specific group of immigrants. Those particular individuals just may be shy but I wouldn't lay the blame of their shyness squarely on their nationality or immigrant status.

I have known quite a few loud mouthed immigrants from a variety of countries, including Asian and Arabic nations and worked with a lot of them and none of them had any shyness issues that prevented them from working or getting jobs. Most of them had their own businesses, were going to school, AND worked!
 
Old 01-22-2014, 11:18 AM
bg7
 
7,697 posts, read 8,163,628 times
Reputation: 15093
Don't worry, the Americans with Shyness Act will overcome all this.

Jeeze louise
 
Old 01-22-2014, 11:31 AM
 
757 posts, read 510,453 times
Reputation: 1381
It seems these immigrants should
Have done more preparation before coming to this country. For example: learn to speak English fluently. Learn a trade and so forth.

I would never go live in another country without first learning to be fluent in that country's language. It's just common sense.
 
Old 01-22-2014, 11:32 AM
 
Location: St Thomas, US Virgin Islands
24,671 posts, read 58,375,697 times
Reputation: 26526
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
It can rub you the wrong way - so what? ... Don't care if it rubs you the wrong way ... Be offended all you want.
Do I look like someone who's going to get all bent out of shape because of your opinion of my simply being momentarily rubbed the wrong way? I wasn't expressing a reaction for your approval or disapproval, merely noting it. But I think you should extrapolate further to really make your point perfectly clear ...

Maybe once you've done that you could answer the OP's question, viz, "What can be done so painfully shy but well qualified applicants can get hired?"
 
Old 01-22-2014, 11:33 AM
 
Location: St Thomas, US Virgin Islands
24,671 posts, read 58,375,697 times
Reputation: 26526
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Don't worry, the Americans with Shyness Act will overcome all this.

Jeeze louise
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