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Old 02-01-2014, 11:16 AM
 
333 posts, read 327,849 times
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The problem with the mentality of not hiring long term unemployed is because the perception they are awful workers and lost their skills isn't applicable anymore as there is too many unemployed people, and not enough of ideal candidates for companies. Due to the recession the long term unemployment skyrocketed, and now you have more and more managers whining how they can't find qualified candidates.

Well the best of the best are still working, so now you need to lower your expectations and use some common sense like how their skills are, and most important of all are willing to take time to learn and attempt to succeed. The people who are naturally gifted are usually the least loyal as they can jump around anywhere they want, and you can't do anything about it. But giving people a chance, and most important give them time to develop and attempt to succeed are the most loyal as they realize the opportunity they were given.

Those are the workers who sometimes become super valuable in the organization as they appreciate what they have been given. Now hiring managers need to realize that many of the candidates out there have been unemployed for a while, and they need to realize that training is an asset as long as the person shows they are trainable and adept, they can succeed.
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:21 AM
 
333 posts, read 327,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintage_girl View Post
This. I cannot figure out why people wouldn't be doing some training on their own, especially with the workforce centers offering programs, dislocated worker programs, free networking groups and training programs, along with volunteerism. I'm currently unemployed (but a full time student) and volunteer to keep myself up to date and the people I know who were previously employed refused to do volunteer work or training on their own. They saw it as a waste of time when they could be looking for jobs. At the end of the day when the postings haven't changed much for the previous week, I'd say a person needs to figure out how to make better use of their time.
To be fair they sometimes can't afford training on their own. Do you expect an individual to be able to cough up hundreds of dollars to have access to specific software to your company like SQL, SPSS, Omniture, and etc. What's worse is the same type of work, lets say an analyst, uses different software depending on the industry and the company itself.

Also how do you show that on a resume? It's one thing if you got a certification that is possible like Google Analytics, but saying you practice using Excel is basically just taking someone's word. There needs to be some common sense as it's expected you try to stay up to date in the industry you want to get involved in, but expecting them to be up to date on all the software a company uses or methods a company prefers is ludicrous as people don't have the financial resources to commit to a position that is basically a "maybe I might get hired."
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:33 AM
 
47,573 posts, read 60,813,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
Just wondering from your prospective, why you think that it's better to hire people who are currently working (and stealing, in a way, someone else's employee) or out of work for less than 3 months, as opposed to 6 months or more?
Nothing new at all in this.

Anyone who is at all smart about hiring will check resumes for work experience and long gaps between jobs. Common knowledge would make you question someone's eagerness to work if they have no evidence of it.
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:34 AM
 
47,573 posts, read 60,813,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panderson1988 View Post
To be fair they sometimes can't afford training on their own. Do you expect an individual to be able to cough up hundreds of dollars to have access to specific software to your company like SQL, SPSS, Omniture, and etc. What's worse is the same type of work, lets say an analyst, uses different software depending on the industry and the company itself.

Also how do you show that on a resume? It's one thing if you got a certification that is possible like Google Analytics, but saying you practice using Excel is basically just taking someone's word. There needs to be some common sense as it's expected you try to stay up to date in the industry you want to get involved in, but expecting them to be up to date on all the software a company uses or methods a company prefers is ludicrous as people don't have the financial resources to commit to a position that is basically a "maybe I might get hired."
Working your way through college is also nothing new. Millions of people have worked while going to college so they could pay for it.
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:49 AM
 
1,158 posts, read 1,056,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nostoneunturned View Post
It is not that hiring someone who is unemployed is wrong. It is extremely likely there are (many) highly-qualified candidates who are currently employed in a comparable position and have been building experience/sharpening skills for x years, whereas the unemployed candidate has not or can not demonstrate via application. These employed candidates have at least some sort of proof of ability, unfair or not, which unfortunately an unemployed or newly-graduated person may not be able to offer. What is wrong with employers desiring to skilled, experienced employees?
Because it's a self defeating cycle.

You can't get a job because you're unemployed or a newly minted college grad with limited experience.
But, in order to get that experiece, you already need to be employed and working in a similar position.

There is nothing wrong with wanting highly qualified people. But, some places are putting up high barriers to entry.
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Old 02-01-2014, 11:55 AM
 
1,158 posts, read 1,056,385 times
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Originally Posted by ackmondual View Post
Agreed. Unfortunately, perception outweighs all other expectations. In some cases, the work a currently employed person does is far inferior to the studies of some unemployed person. I know of IT jobs where people just show up to work, collect a pay check, but don't really do anything productive (and no, this ain't limited to federal government work, har har.)

What amuses me more is when a company tries to "poach" a currently employed person, but they botch it by not offering a higher salary, nor any incentive to switch companies. If you want the skills, but don't want to pay a higher wage, then that's truly what the unemployed are for... make sure they can do the job, and you can try to lower your rates due to their situation.

These are very true points. I know IT people that are on the admin/help desk side, that refuse to go into programming or at least attempt to learn it.
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Old 02-01-2014, 12:17 PM
 
4,159 posts, read 4,171,340 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guawazi View Post

I'm guessing companies are the same. Regardless of your reason, they assume there's something wrong with you and your ability to find work, and therefore find you less attractive. I think in both situations it's clear that fully capable people are sometimes just never given a chance.
Sometimes there can be arguments about net worth and being paid but the argument falls a bit flat. For example many people I know have plenty of experience but that does not mean they get paid for it. Half of the people that work in local governments are volunteers or get paid a small stipend. I live in a town where someone with a $1,000 stipend yields more power than someone making $100,000

With non profits it can also be the same because I've seen people working that would easily yield $10-15/hr worth of work for free. But they believe more in the mission statement and goals than making cash (although free pizza kinda helps! )

On the inverse I can argue that many corporations actually operate at a loss. Reading any 10k for the past five years can illustrate this. So if the argument is making a profit frankly major corporations are looking more like non profits simply because they aren't making any
loss for the quarter - Google Search


"To be fair they sometimes can't afford training on their own. Do you expect an individual to be able to cough up hundreds of dollars to have access to specific software to your company like SQL, SPSS, Omniture, and etc. What's worse is the same type of work, lets say an analyst, uses different software depending on the industry and the company itself."

But keep in mind that online training is gaining. How much is Lydia.com for SPSS?
All Software | lynda.com pretty comprehensive if you ask me. $25-37 a month...that's not even a tank of gas! Youtube also has plenty of videos on everything as well.

"Also how do you show that on a resume? It's one thing if you got a certification that is possible like Google Analytics, but saying you practice using Excel is basically just taking someone's word. There needs to be some common sense as it's expected you try to stay up to date in the industry you want to get involved in, but expecting them to be up to date on all the software a company uses or methods a company prefers is ludicrous as people don't have the financial resources to commit to a position that is basically a "maybe I might get hired.""

Well Coursera has classes you can take that allow it to be linked to your linkedin profile as a verification. There's a $50 fee for a actual certificate but I'd argue that having it on your linkedin profile is pretty good.
Maybe someone might claim to hack coursera but to go to such lengths to add a certificate would be stupid.

The other thing I would argue is that those looking for work are competing with those looking for work and those applying to maintain unemployment.So you have to stand out a bit more by taking a class, joining an organization etc. If it means driving to some conference you think is stupid that has bad food or ghost writing a speech for someone to get in reading entire books to catch up then so be it.
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Old 02-01-2014, 12:18 PM
 
4,069 posts, read 5,497,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panderson1988 View Post
To be fair they sometimes can't afford training on their own. Do you expect an individual to be able to cough up hundreds of dollars to have access to specific software to your company like SQL, SPSS, Omniture, and etc. What's worse is the same type of work, lets say an analyst, uses different software depending on the industry and the company itself.

Also how do you show that on a resume? It's one thing if you got a certification that is possible like Google Analytics, but saying you practice using Excel is basically just taking someone's word. There needs to be some common sense as it's expected you try to stay up to date in the industry you want to get involved in, but expecting them to be up to date on all the software a company uses or methods a company prefers is ludicrous as people don't have the financial resources to commit to a position that is basically a "maybe I might get hired."
SQL software is available free for educational purposes on Oracle and Microsoft's website. I downloaded Oracle Database, when I was laid off, 3 years ago. I picked up a used book from Amazon for $20. Yeah, the exam was $250, but I got a $20k raise within a month.

If I was laid off today and forced to download free software, I would still do it again.

Last edited by move4ward; 02-01-2014 at 12:47 PM..
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Old 02-01-2014, 12:27 PM
 
28 posts, read 72,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panderson1988 View Post
To be fair they sometimes can't afford training on their own. Do you expect an individual to be able to cough up hundreds of dollars to have access to specific software to your company like SQL, SPSS, Omniture, and etc.
Thank you. I am so sick of hearing how the unemployed should be taking classes to stay relevant. With what money? Even when I was working full time I couldn't really afford to take classes, so how could someone who isn't working afford it?

edit: I see that several people have suggested free online classes or self-teaching. While I agree that this is better than nothing, do companies really value these accomplishments?

p.s. - I am employed part time, but I am looking for ways to increase my marketability, so I am genuinely curious.
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Old 02-01-2014, 01:22 PM
 
Location: Kalamalka Lake, B.C.
3,044 posts, read 4,037,255 times
Reputation: 3898
Default Remember where you really are.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
Just wondering from your prospective, why you think that it's better to hire people who are currently working (and stealing, in a way, someone else's employee) or out of work for less than 3 months, as opposed to 6 months or more?
I had no issue with that, but in larger population cities I'd find long term unemployment unusual or at least deserving an explanation. Look at the small population base of Canada across the board until you hit Ontario/Quebec. There's no one there! And entire industries all know each other. It's tough, particularly in govt/quasi-govt. positions for everyone to either be related or they went to school with each other.

If you an outsider that gets tough and it will take a little time for find your place.
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