U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment > Job Search
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-02-2014, 08:59 AM
 
11,262 posts, read 8,417,691 times
Reputation: 20430

Advertisements

If you were valedictorian or something or, honestly, if you graduated with a 4.0, it's great stuff in "Additional Information" along with "published novelist" or "Red Cross volunteer". Not pertinent really to the job, but gives insight on who you are. It can be an ice breaker and give people a chance to relax with you. Besides, if you were equal , neck and neck with another candidate, this additional information might just pull you ahead!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-02-2014, 09:02 AM
MJ7
 
6,221 posts, read 8,635,471 times
Reputation: 6514
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
That makes sense because I would expect somebody who has a 4.0 and a 2.0 to have the same work ethic and sense of responsibility and drive.

If I was hiring between those 2, how to choose? Maybe flip a coin? Maybe base it on who has the longer last name?

I mean, it's pretty obvious everybody who is telling their kids to work hard and get good grades at school is merely wasting their time because academic performance translates into nothing in the real world.
I get your point and agree with it to an extent. Most job applications (at least that I have filed) ask for my GPA, so it is redundant placing it on the resume. Furthermore, almost every place that hired me, except one that knew the dean of my class, asked for transcripts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2014, 09:33 AM
 
1,305 posts, read 1,318,222 times
Reputation: 1364
Companies that hire based on gpa are shallow and you probably wouldn't want to work for them. Studies have consistently shown over and over that there is absolutely no connection between gpa and work performance. Not even a little bit.

Companies that have policies of a minimum gpa before they even look at you don't know how many good potential employees they pass by every time they hire.

Google, for example, don't even look at your gpa anymore. And they are rated as the best company to work for.

As an example of how useless your gpa is when it comes to work performance, my company hired 2 of us for my current job. They had to fire the other guy because his work are riddled with mistakes and they had to hold his hand to do everything. And his gpa was closer to 4.0, way above mine. I've been checking people's work for archiving, and let me tell you his work are bad. Really really bad.

Last edited by rosie_hair; 02-02-2014 at 09:42 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2014, 09:39 AM
MJ7
 
6,221 posts, read 8,635,471 times
Reputation: 6514
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosie_hair View Post
Companies that hire based on gpa are shallow and you probably wouldn't want to work for them. Studies have consistently shown over and over that there is absolutely no connection between gpa and work performance. Not even a little bit. As an example, my boss once admitted his gpa back when was in the 2.xxx range. He is now an RE, a position that every engineer wants to be in.
I agree, but having that strong work ethic coming out of school I would see as a plus. I know it doesn't carry over per say into the real world, but it shows dedication, commitment, and a strong passion to succeed early on, which I assume anyone in their right minds would use to secure a position during an interview.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2014, 09:45 AM
 
7,375 posts, read 11,542,544 times
Reputation: 8174
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ7 View Post
I get your point and agree with it to an extent. Most job applications (at least that I have filed) ask for my GPA, so it is redundant placing it on the resume. Furthermore, almost every place that hired me, except one that knew the dean of my class, asked for transcripts.
It's like everybody wants to discount everything anybody else has done.

You have a 4.0? Means nothing in the real world.

You went to Harvard? Means nothing in the real world.

Awards & Merits and Scholarships? Means nothing in the real world.

Uh, I have been in school and I know the difference between a 4.0 and 2.0 student. Mainly it's being a nerd and studying all day, or doing bong rips until 4 AM. And you're investing a lot of $ into this person and you don't want to know that difference. Sounds smart to me.

So, nothing you've done in your first 22 years of life counts for anything? OK. I wish I had remembered that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2014, 09:52 AM
MJ7
 
6,221 posts, read 8,635,471 times
Reputation: 6514
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
It's like everybody wants to discount everything anybody else has done.

You have a 4.0? Means nothing in the real world.

You went to Harvard? Means nothing in the real world.

Awards & Merits and Scholarships? Means nothing in the real world.

Uh, I have been in school and I know the difference between a 4.0 and 2.0 student. Mainly it's being a nerd and studying all day, or doing bong rips until 4 AM. And you're investing a lot of $ into this person and you don't want to know that difference. Sounds smart to me.

So, nothing you've done in your first 22 years of life counts for anything? OK. I wish I had remembered that.
I disagree with everything stated, but hey that's okay. I'm not saying just because you earn a 4.0 means you'll be the next Nobel Prize winner, I'm just saying in my field especially, many large (Fortune 50) companies will have requirements for GPA, no matter your AGE or EXPERIENCE.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2014, 09:57 AM
 
7,375 posts, read 11,542,544 times
Reputation: 8174
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ7 View Post
I disagree with everything stated, but hey that's okay. I'm not saying just because you earn a 4.0 means you'll be the next Nobel Prize winner, I'm just saying in my field especially, many large (Fortune 50) companies will have requirements for GPA, no matter your AGE or EXPERIENCE.
I agree GPA doesn't mean that much. And it's true nobody should care after a few years.

But it should be at least good for getting that first job.

OP and a few other posters already admitted their GPA was lower at points because they partied and goofed off. So, why shouldn't somebody with a 4.0 be rewarded?

When you're saying (not you, but anybody) GPA and school name don't matter at all, you're basically saying nothing anybody does in the first 22 years of their life means anything. Not only is it not fair, it just doesn't make any kind of logical sense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2014, 10:01 AM
 
1,305 posts, read 1,318,222 times
Reputation: 1364
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ7 View Post
I agree, but having that strong work ethic coming out of school I would see as a plus. I know it doesn't carry over per say into the real world, but it shows dedication, commitment, and a strong passion to succeed early on, which I assume anyone in their right minds would use to secure a position during an interview.
Here's the thing. I would argue that even a strong gpa doesn't necessarily mean dedication or commitment.

Back when I was taking calculus 3, I knew a guy that made me really really jealous. Blond hair, blue eyes, good looking, athletic, just a guy that every girl wants to be with. Every day, I would come early to class and he would show up about the same time to copy my homework. He never did his homework. He partied all the time. Even the night before the final exam, I found out that he was out partying with his buddies. Every single one of his tests had 100% written on it. Not only was he blessed with good looks, he was also blessed with extremely high intelligence.

I had him for a couple more classes and it was pretty much the same pattern. Never studied. Never did any work. Always got an A. Also always one of the first ones to turn in an exam.

For his senior project, he just copied some previous project (he admitted to me). For expo, he didn't even appear on the radar. But his report (probably most of it was copied... again he admitted that he copied the project from a previous senior project) had an A on it. I got 2nd place in structural design and experimentation. Due to lack of sleep and looming deadline, my report got a B in it. And my project was original. Trust me, you won't find it in any published study. I was determined to do something useful and actually learn, not get an easy A.

My gpa was in the lower end of the 3.xxx range and his was right next to a 4.0. Again, my company hired someone like him when they hired me. They hired 2 of us at the time. The other guy's gpa was almost a 4.0, and he bragged about it all the time. On paper, everything about him showed dedication, commitment, and strong passion to succeed. He also had a few internships in his resume. My company thought they struck gold when they got him. Well, they eventually fired him because he couldn't do anything right. And I'm still here driving a company car to and from my office.

Like I said, common sense would tell us that gpa at least show some level of dedication and commitment. But again, studies have shown over and over that gpa has absolutely no connection to work performance. Not even a little. The only reason anyone even considers gpa when looking at a candidate is purely for psychological reason... on the hirer's part.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2014, 10:06 AM
 
7,375 posts, read 11,542,544 times
Reputation: 8174
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosie_hair View Post

My gpa was in the lower end of the 3.xxx range and his was right next to a 4.0. Again, my company hired someone like him when they hired me. They hired 2 of us at the time. The other guy's gpa was almost a 4.0, and he bragged about it all the time. On paper, everything about him showed dedication, commitment, and strong passion to succeed. He also had a few internships in his resume. My company thought they struck gold when they got him. Well, they eventually fired him because he couldn't do anything right. And I'm still here driving a company car to and from my office.

Like I said, common sense would tell us that gpa at least show some level of dedication and commitment. But again, studies have shown over and over that gpa has absolutely no connection to work performance. Not even a little. The only reason anyone even considers gpa when looking at a candidate is purely for psychological reason... on the hirer's part.
That's fine.

But then someone who has a 2.0 and did no work in school whatsoever and just barely got by gets the same chances as you do.

You went to engineering school in the US?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2014, 10:13 AM
MJ7
 
6,221 posts, read 8,635,471 times
Reputation: 6514
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosie_hair View Post
Here's the thing. I would argue that even a strong gpa doesn't necessarily mean dedication or commitment.

Back when I was taking calculus 3, I knew a guy that made me really really jealous. Blond hair, blue eyes, good looking, athletic, just a guy that every girl wants to be with. Every day, I would come early to class and he would show up about the same time to copy my homework. He never did his homework. He partied all the time. Even the night before the final exam, I found out that he was out partying with his buddies. Every single one of his tests had 100% written on it. Not only was he blessed with good looks, he was also blessed with extremely high intelligence.

I had him for a couple more classes and it was pretty much the same pattern. Never studied. Never did any work. Always got an A. Also always one of the first ones to turn in an exam.

For his senior project, he just copied some previous project (he admitted to me). For expo, he didn't even appear on the radar. But his report (probably most of it was copied... again he admitted that he copied the project from a previous senior project) had an A on it. I got 2nd place in structural design and experimentation. Due to lack of sleep and looming deadline, my report got a B in it. And my project was original. Trust me, you won't find it in any published study. I was determined to do something useful and actually learn, not get an easy A.

My gpa was in the lower end of the 3.xxx range and his was right next to a 4.0. Again, my company hired someone like him when they hired me. They hired 2 of us at the time. The other guy's gpa was almost a 4.0, and he bragged about it all the time. On paper, everything about him showed dedication, commitment, and strong passion to succeed. He also had a few internships in his resume. My company thought they struck gold when they got him. Well, they eventually fired him because he couldn't do anything right. And I'm still here driving a company car to and from my office.

Like I said, common sense would tell us that gpa at least show some level of dedication and commitment. But again, studies have shown over and over that gpa has absolutely no connection to work performance. Not even a little. The only reason anyone even considers gpa when looking at a candidate is purely for psychological reason... on the hirer's part.

Let me understand something, so you fostered plagiarism and you think because one bad egg gpa means nothing? I highly doubt that. I have experienced both ends, high GPA students that make horrible candidates and great GPA that are superior. I believe it tends to come down to the particular job. Let's compare your job. You are an engineer you drive a company vehicle to and from sites so on and so forth. Would an abstract minded individual do well in your same position, I have no idea, but I would guess probably not. That same person would likely thrive at a research institute however.

Work ethic and brains are too different things. You have a strong work ethic and brains, some people just have brains. However, employees also need to fit in and it does not matter if they are the next Stephen Hawking, they won't fit in with any company if they can't foster and care for the companies bottom line and growth.

I have had my experience with horrible PhD colleagues, they feel entitled, like they are too good for the work and often times lack the attention and dedication to perform the work, even if it is mundane. But, if I went out on the limb and said all of them are terrible employees I would be throwing myself under the bus. I have worked since age 14 paid my own way and did very well in college, graduated with honors and 3rd in class after graduating HS with a 2.4 GPA and barely making it into college. I am a minority and had all odds against me in my younger years, racially thrown to the curb. You can bet I use these character building traits and hard work in interviewers. I have been quite successful at my work, and I have never had a performance issue. I have actually had the reverse at every job so far, praise from outside clients to my boss etc.

Not to brag or sound like I'm a gifted person, trust me I'm not. BUT, I worked my ass off for it and I think I deserve some credit.

Some of these things are cared for and known though by industry employers. So, like I said above, I'm not agreeing with the fact that a 4.0 and a 2.0 don't mean something in the real world.

Last edited by MJ7; 02-02-2014 at 10:30 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment > Job Search
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top