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Old 02-02-2014, 07:43 PM
 
1,305 posts, read 1,324,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guawazi View Post
So basically, everyone seems to be saying that if you're smart and have the ability to do well in school, you can still get away with slacking off because companies don't care about what your GPA is?
I have no idea how you got this from the posts in this thread so far. Here is a summary.

(1) Most people who have responded have expressed that GPA's on resumes are only necessary if you came straight out of college. Beyond that, most people would only require to look at your work experiences.

(2) Some people went a little further and pointed out that work experiences trump GPA's.

(3) I came in and pointed out that study after study have consistently shown that there is absolutely no connection at all between GPA and work performance. Not even a little.

(4) Some people disagree with me.

Nobody here has said anything close to your summary above. A little reading comprehension problem?
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Old 02-02-2014, 07:51 PM
 
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I agree, I didn't slack off in college but I sure as heck didn't have a 4.0! But I do work hard at my job
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Old 02-02-2014, 07:53 PM
 
7,475 posts, read 11,621,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosie_hair View Post
I have no idea how you got this from the posts in this thread so far. Here is a summary.

(1) Most people who have responded have expressed that GPA's on resumes are only necessary if you came straight out of college. Beyond that, most people would only require to look at your work experiences.
#1 is all I was trying to argue.

I think GPA should help you with the first and maybe second job and that's it. Nobody said anybody with a low GPA is doomed to anything.

What if somebody said that your Masters Degree meant nothing? That it was garbage? A waste of time and $? I have met a number of people who do think that.

That's not too nice. It's discrediting your achievement. When you say that a 4.0 is meaningless, you are discrediting someone's achievements. If somebody has accomplished more than you, you tip your hat off to them and do your best.
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Old 02-02-2014, 08:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
So then, I ask again.

Why does everybody tell their kids to work hard at school when the fact that you get a degree from anywhere with any GPA is all the same? Why do people ground their kids for getting bad grades when it's so painfully obvious that academic performance has no bearing on anything in real life?
I honestly have no idea why some people on here have trouble with reading comprehension all of a sudden.

Nobody has said anything close to academic performance has no bearing on anything in real life. Please go back and reread people's messages again.

Quote:
When a 4.0 from Harvard will be dismissed as 'just as good as a 2.0 degree from anywhere' by at least most employers, what is the point of doing that?
This is completely false. Only a hand full of companies don't look at GPA anymore. Almost all still put an emphasis on your GPA and where you got it from if you came straight out of college.

Quote:
Will you tell your children to just 'do whatever' in school because it's not important for anything in the real world?
I'm having trouble understanding why you insist on thinking in terms of black and white even though the real world exists in a spectrum?

Just because GPA has no connection to work performance doesn't mean school and academic achievements are useless.

Earlier, I even pointed out an example that demonstrates this. For my senior design project, I decided to do something completely original. Did my own research, design, and experiments. Because of the time limits and my over-ambitiousness, I got a B in my paper even though I got 2nd place in structural at expo. Another guy I know copied someone else's past project and got an easy A on it.

Not saying every case is like that. But it is an example of how GPA does not reflect work performance or work attitude. Grades wasn't everything for me. I'd rather do something that I can be proud of years later. And I still am. I've had hours of conversations with other engineers in the industry about my research and experiments for my senior project. I've been keeping track of the topic in academic literature, and in the last couple years a few phd groups have begun research on this subject.

The point is school gives you an opportunity to learn and expand your horizon. And sometimes, it meant not getting all A's.
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Old 02-02-2014, 08:08 PM
 
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I'm a software developer, and been in the industry for a few years. I didn't exactly graduate with the best of GPAs (had some medical issues for a few semesters in college, so lots of F's and W's), so I don't include my GPA on my resume. It was a little difficult landing that first job, but after getting some experience, nobody cares about a lack of GPA on my resume. In fact, the last two companies I've been at don't even care about a degree at all. The best developer at my last job didn't even finish high school, and he was 19 years old making $60k/yr. He literally started coding when he was 11.
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Old 02-02-2014, 08:24 PM
 
1,305 posts, read 1,324,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
#1 is all I was trying to argue.

I think GPA should help you with the first and maybe second job and that's it. Nobody said anybody with a low GPA is doomed to anything.

What if somebody said that your Masters Degree meant nothing? That it was garbage? A waste of time and $? I have met a number of people who do think that.

That's not too nice. It's discrediting your achievement. When you say that a 4.0 is meaningless, you are discrediting someone's achievements. If somebody has accomplished more than you, you tip your hat off to them and do your best.
I understand what you mean. I really do.

Keep in mind one thing, though. What we want to hear or believe doesn't necessarily reflect what reality tells us. Trust me, there was a time when I really wanted to believe that GPA reflects your work performance. But again, the reality is research after research have shown that there is no connection between your GPA and work performance. Not even a little. Even google confirmed this last year after looking at GPA's and work performances of their own employees. That's why they said they stopped looking at people's GPA's.

About my masters, I'm actually ok with people telling me it meant nothing. In the end, it's just a piece of paper and my GPA is just a number. What's important is what I did to earn it. What I used the time in school for.

For most senior projects, it is perfectly acceptable if people do one of the following: research, design, or use someone else's research and design and experiment. Well, I did all 3. The topic was not published in any academic literature, so it was really tough for me to find info on it. I had to look in foreign literature to find any info on the topic. Then I did my own design. I devised and did my own experimentations. The result was I impressed the judges with what I did. Of course, first place went to the topic (I kid you not) called earthquake design for orphaned children of Haiti. Who was not going to give that topic first place? It was right after the earthquake in Haiti. From what I was told, people were shown pictures of orphaned children during that presentation and people cried.

Anyway, I paid dearly for the extra steps I took for the project. Got a B on my submitted report. The grader completely ignored everything else I did. All he cared about were the grammars and if I put enough in that paper. I swear, had I had another week...

Oh yeah, here's another something to think about. There was a group of slackers that came into expo with a poster that was hand-written. Yeah, I had my poster professionally made by a professional company. This other group of slacker didn't start the project until a couple weeks before expo. They tanked on the presentation part. Personally, they tanked on everything else. They just took something from a published paper and repeated what was written on there. They got an easy A.

Do you see how the system can reward laziness and punish those who go above and beyond?

The point is companies that put too much weight on GPA are shallow. And the people who do the hiring are probably too lazy to probe deeper.
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Old 02-02-2014, 09:37 PM
 
268 posts, read 327,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosie_hair View Post
Nobody here has said anything close to your summary above. A little reading comprehension problem?
Sometimes I don't bother to read every comment before making general statements. Not the best idea, but I do it...sometimes.

In response to the OP, I would agree that GPA on a resume is only relevant if you have no work experience. Your GPA can help get you in the door for entry-level positions, but where you go from there depends on your past experience.

On the argument about whether GPA matters or not, I think in many cases it can reflect work ethic. It's not a very good indicator of who you are as a person, or how you'll do on the job, but I imagine this person might try harder even if they ultimately were not successful. If you had a ton of extra-curricular activities going on during school, and managed a high GPA at the same time, I think it shows your ability to multitask and prioritize.

If someone has a bad personality, doesn't work well with others, and doesn't have the skills necessary for the job, then it shouldn't matter at all. It shouldn't determine whether someone gets a job or not, but it can be the icing on the cake for someone who has all the other necessary skills/attributes.

I'm trying to make sense both arguments if I can. I was an average student in high-school. Had average grades, did average on tests, and most other kids thought I was dumb because of it. Then college came. Got great grades, did well on tests and had a high GPA. People thought the exact opposite.

Last edited by guawazi; 02-02-2014 at 09:50 PM..
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Old 02-02-2014, 09:54 PM
 
Location: MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazergore1198 View Post
I'm a software developer, and been in the industry for a few years. I didn't exactly graduate with the best of GPAs (had some medical issues for a few semesters in college, so lots of F's and W's), so I don't include my GPA on my resume. It was a little difficult landing that first job, but after getting some experience, nobody cares about a lack of GPA on my resume. In fact, the last two companies I've been at don't even care about a degree at all. The best developer at my last job didn't even finish high school, and he was 19 years old making $60k/yr. He literally started coding when he was 11.
I have found this to be true, as well. Since I'll be a new grad soon in spite of having a previous degree, I know I'll be asked to defend my GPA. It probably depends on your field, too. My previous field cared less about my GPA. I was never asked about it once because they care more about your experience and the fact you have a degree. These are things people need to consider when they are evaluating occupations.
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Old 02-02-2014, 10:01 PM
 
4,069 posts, read 5,492,832 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guawazi View Post
Sometimes I don't bother to read every comment before making general statements. Not the best idea, but I do it...sometimes.

In response to the OP, I would agree that GPA on a resume is only relevant if you have no work experience. Your GPA can help get you in the door for entry-level positions, but where you go from there depends on your past experience.

On the argument about whether GPA matters or not, I think in many cases it can reflect work ethic. It's not a very good indicator of who you are as a person, or how you'll do on the job, but I imagine this person might try harder even if they ultimately were not successful. If you had a ton of extra-curricular activities going on during school, and managed a high GPA at the same time, I think it shows your ability to multitask and prioritize.

If someone has a bad personality, doesn't work well with others, and doesn't have the skills necessary for the job, then it shouldn't matter at all. It shouldn't determine whether someone gets a job or not, but it can be the icing on the cake for someone who has all the other necessary skills/attributes.

I'm trying to make sense both arguments if I can. I was an average student in high-school. Had average grades, did average on tests, and most other kids thought I was dumb because of it. Then college came. Got great grades, did well on tests and had a high GPA. People thought the exact opposite.

The work experience is far more relevant to work performance, than somebody's GPA from years ago.

I had a guy with 2 masters degrees, including an MBA, apply for a SQL reporting position. He couldn't even write 3 lines to pull one data value from table of 10 records. He couldn't answer any questions.

I had another candidate with 2 years SQL experience with only a bachelor's degree from a smaller university. He had more experience and it showed in his ability to develop simple code.

Guess what? The candidate with fewer degrees from a smaller university got the offer. You know what? Some other company ended up stealing him with a better offer. Companies care about work performance.

Work performance trumps school performance. If I have a guy that saved his company $300k for his company last year with a 3.0 GPA and a candidate with a 4.0 GPA and made only $100k for his company, guess what? The first guy will get the nod.
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Old 02-04-2014, 06:56 PM
MJ7
 
6,221 posts, read 8,677,432 times
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What I have summed up from these discussions are this. 1) many think that GPA has no merit on work performance, and indeed they prove that through first hand accounts, 2) others believe GPA does have merit on work performance and indeed they prove that through first hand accounts. In summary, it depends on the job. There are plenty of jobs out there that do not require advanced degrees or the best test score/knowledgeable person, because many can learn on the fly what they need for that job. Other jobs require a higher skill set, one based on a foundation of graduate school/years of higher level school work and thus a higher foundation of abstract thinkers...especially in the STEM fields.

There are plenty of people that I graduated with that had not so great GPAs and would not know where to begin when it comes to some of my job tasks. Sure, they could most likely do 50-60% of the same work I do with due diligence and hard work, but the other 40% would be a wash due to basic understanding of scientific principles that ground them in creative wherewithal. But then again, that does not mean it is over, through harder work and due diligence they can achieve the same level as the rest of my 40% outside work. A degree is more important in my field than the overall GPA, especially considering graduate degrees (which are basically a given).
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