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Old 02-23-2014, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
41,744 posts, read 74,732,146 times
Reputation: 66683

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebrator View Post
Again, I have no problem with her at all but my director was a little annoyed at the whole thing. Plus she is a new grad, so I am very into looking out for her. I interviewed her and put the ad up for the position and listed, "New grads are welcome." because I feel some allegiance to those starting out.
That's good, for everyone concerned. Work on assuring your director that you'll help your new employee adjust her schedule so she can observe her Sabbath (which should be a problem only during the dead of winter, unless she works odd hours) and religious holidays while still maintaining her workload.

As far as her pregnancy, you can't know for certain if she was pregnant when she interviewed. She may not have been, she may not have been and didn't know herself, she may have known or suspected but for reasons outlined in other posts did not feel comfortable telling anyone. Your job now is to prepare for her absence, and to make sure all her ducks are in order when it's time for her to go on leave, and when it's time for her to return.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stockwiz View Post
unfortunately you can't really touch the pregnancy question in our culture... women are given a free pass not to mention massive tax writeoffs for having children... some can practically live for free and are better off not working because they'd lose their $50 per month subsidized housing and low cost insurance... that's just the way our society operates. The top and the bottom both suck from the middle... and women with young children get a disproportionately higher amount... The middle class white male who is single gets his biggest piece of the pie taken away, because he's considered 'evil' and a 'stalker' or a 'pedophile' ... I do think it was perhaps dishonest to not disclose pregnanacy or days off needed but clearly the employer simply needs to be more careful and screen more closely... but hey at least she's working!
Wow. You must really hate women.
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Old 02-23-2014, 10:43 AM
 
973 posts, read 1,448,471 times
Reputation: 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by trying harder View Post
If no one asked, it isn't a lie. And if someone asked about pregnancy or religion, they were inviting a lawsuit.

Not volunteering information is NOT the same thing as lying. And I'm speaking from an employer's perspective.
I think hiding a pregnancy is lying. They're probably lying, because they want health benefits. A liar and a cost to the company. That is what I think of women women who hide their pregnancy on interviews.
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Old 02-23-2014, 10:47 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
33,943 posts, read 22,395,597 times
Reputation: 25806
Quote:
Originally Posted by June87 View Post
I think hiding a pregnancy is lying. They're probably lying, because they want health benefits. A liar and a cost to the company. That is what I think of women women who hide their pregnancy on interviews.
She had no legal obligation to disclose. So ~ it is not lying.

Had she made a voluntary but unnecessary disclosure ~ would she have gotten the job?
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Old 02-23-2014, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Ak-Rowdy, OH
1,522 posts, read 2,989,089 times
Reputation: 1152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebrator View Post
OK, perhaps I spoke inaccurately. She is visibly newly pregnant (appears quite thin in the midsection). She started work a week and a half after the interview, so perhaps she wasn't pregnant on the interview, but I suspect she was.

She is a new graduate and although my director minds her not telling us, I sympathize with her in every way considering that the workforce is treating new grads like s--t and casting them aside because of "lack of experience".

I see no problem in lying on interviews or with references or salary history. I have lied in all of them or got someone to lie for me.
Those are things that hiring managers will discriminate on in a minute. I am not for lying but I can completely see why she would not mention them out of the blue.
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:58 PM
 
Location: The Carolinas
2,509 posts, read 2,801,485 times
Reputation: 7964
If you hire a young woman, odds are, she will become pregnant at some point and you as an employer will have to find a way to either work around it or deal with it somehow. It's a true "fact of life". If you hire a woman who has children, odds are, she will likely miss more work than a woman who does not.

Now, everyone PLEASE READ CAREFULLY HERE. DO NOT FLAME ME. From a purely economic standpoint, women are GENERALLY less productive than men, due to just the two points I've raised above. Take a deep breath. Don't click "reply" until you've let that sink in and your blood pressure has dropped back to normal.

We, as a society, need to acknowledge this, embrace this, and discuss this. These are probably the main reasons that women OVERALL make less money than men.

I was hired at the same time in a group with about half women. No less than one week after, one of the ladies announced she was pregnant. She took the normal three months' leave, with pre-natal Dr. visits during work hours beforehand, and normal neo-natal Dr. visits during work hours afterwards. At the two year mark, she was promoted and received the same salary boost as I did.

Being purely objective I ask: is that fair to me? I worked every day, and every hour during those two years, without so much as one sick day.

BE OBJECTIVE. DON'T FLAME. . . and GO!
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Old 02-23-2014, 01:58 PM
 
24,488 posts, read 41,005,852 times
Reputation: 12919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebrator View Post
I see no problem in lying on interviews or with references or salary history. I have lied in all of them or got someone to lie for me.
Fraud is a serious crime. Your participation in criminal activity for self gain is quite telling about the type of person you are.
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Old 02-23-2014, 02:14 PM
 
973 posts, read 1,448,471 times
Reputation: 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
She had no legal obligation to disclose. So ~ it is not lying.

Had she made a voluntary but unnecessary disclosure ~ would she have gotten the job?
It's being sneaky. Do you really think coworkers are going to like a sneaky person who work they will have to do in the near future? Do you think the boss is going to forgot this if he needs to lay someone off? Do you think when there's more money, do you miss lied about being pregnant is going to be on the top of getting raise/bonus?


Why should she get the job if she's unavailable in the NEAR FUTURE to commit to it? Why can't I a non-pregnant woman, or a man, start a new job and in a few months and take 8 weeks off? If you start a new job and get pregnant, it's one thing. Hell, if you've been working at the same job for awhile, I see no problem. It's really crummy to start a job knowing your pregnant. You're taking a job away from someone who won't need maternity leave and putting more work on your coworkers. It's just a shady thing to do and reveals someone's character.
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Old 02-23-2014, 03:15 PM
 
821 posts, read 1,096,782 times
Reputation: 1292
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
Fraud is a serious crime. Your participation in criminal activity for self gain is quite telling about the type of person you are.
Yeah, I've adapted to the personalities of my past administrators and owners who commit fraud as well and who don't give a damn about their employees.
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Old 02-23-2014, 06:01 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
33,943 posts, read 22,395,597 times
Reputation: 25806
Quote:
Originally Posted by adams_aj View Post
If you hire a young woman, odds are, she will become pregnant at some point and you as an employer will have to find a way to either work around it or deal with it somehow. It's a true "fact of life". If you hire a woman who has children, odds are, she will likely miss more work than a woman who does not.

Now, everyone PLEASE READ CAREFULLY HERE. DO NOT FLAME ME. From a purely economic standpoint, women are GENERALLY less productive than men, due to just the two points I've raised above. Take a deep breath. Don't click "reply" until you've let that sink in and your blood pressure has dropped back to normal.

We, as a society, need to acknowledge this, embrace this, and discuss this. These are probably the main reasons that women OVERALL make less money than men.

I was hired at the same time in a group with about half women. No less than one week after, one of the ladies announced she was pregnant. She took the normal three months' leave, with pre-natal Dr. visits during work hours beforehand, and normal neo-natal Dr. visits during work hours afterwards. At the two year mark, she was promoted and received the same salary boost as I did.

Being purely objective I ask: is that fair to me? I worked every day, and every hour during those two years, without so much as one sick day.

BE OBJECTIVE. DON'T FLAME. . . and GO!
Goodness, goodness. Where to begin? IF you fell and broke your leg and needed 8 weeks off - should you forgo your raise that year?

I really don't like the generalities. I've seen working mothers work their a$$ off - because they have to in order to be thought of as equal to the most lazy male.

Don't flame, it's true.

According to your theory - the laziest, weakest male should make more money because maternity leave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by June87 View Post
It's being sneaky. Do you really think coworkers are going to like a sneaky person who work they will have to do in the near future? Do you think the boss is going to forgot this if he needs to lay someone off? Do you think when there's more money, do you miss lied about being pregnant is going to be on the top of getting raise/bonus?


Why should she get the job if she's unavailable in the NEAR FUTURE to commit to it? Why can't I a non-pregnant woman, or a man, start a new job and in a few months and take 8 weeks off? If you start a new job and get pregnant, it's one thing. Hell, if you've been working at the same job for awhile, I see no problem. It's really crummy to start a job knowing your pregnant. You're taking a job away from someone who won't need maternity leave and putting more work on your coworkers. It's just a shady thing to do and reveals someone's character.
I think co-workers deal with pregnant women every day and don't think a thing of it. One day - they will need time off for their own child, or perhaps a bad back, or their mother is dying . . .

Legally, IF the woman is the most qualified of all the candidates, her pregnancy is a LEGAL non-issue.

Therefore, all your points are moot.
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Old 02-23-2014, 06:21 PM
 
Location: broke leftist craphole Illizuela
10,326 posts, read 17,346,396 times
Reputation: 20321
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
Fraud is a serious crime. Your participation in criminal activity for self gain is quite telling about the type of person you are.
Lying is not a crime if it were all our elected officials most managers and execs would all be in prison. It isn't even perjury as you are not under official oath to be 100% honest to HR people or managers trying to F-you over. They say you are supposed to try to fit in with the company culture at an interview. Well they are lying to you so feel free to lie back to them. You are just playing by their rules.

Last edited by MSchemist80; 02-23-2014 at 06:44 PM..
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