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Good luck with that. Direct hire? In IT? That's the field I am in. Maybe in yours its different and please do not suggest that I should return to school for another career because the dynamics of employment in the IT world are what they are. This is America's problem. We blame the victim. Always we do this. Opportunity needs to be there. When there was opportunity, employers could not get away with the crap they pull. You didn't need laws, simple business sense and a respect for the bottom line took care of anyone who thought they could run roughshod over fair hiring conventions in the face of stiff competition from other employers for the existing labor pool.
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Exactly, we went from an employee friendly way to a very employer friendly way that can be very exploitative towards employees. I mean look at needing to bring the paystub with you to interviews example for this thread. It could be a way to just verify employment but it also opens up the interviewee to being priced out without even negotiating or even low-balled.
Good luck with that. Direct hire? In IT? That's the field I am in.
Agreed.
I would add, direct hire in IT - in a security related field? Maybe 1% of the jobs are direct hire.
Companies do not like to advertise for employees in IT security positions because they have to list which products they utilize. They don't want to tip off the bad guys. It is common sense.
It is not some sinister employer plot to pay you less, despite what MSchemist80 repeatedly claims. In fact, many of these jobs pay way more as a contract employee thru a staffing agency than what the employer actually pays their full time employees.
The company I am currently contracted to wants to hire me direct, but pays $40k a year less for this "privilege" than what I am getting now. I will keep as a contractor with them as long as I can, even though I would like to become an actual employee at some point.
She sounds like s spoiled brat and control freak. Since you knew you weren't getting the job at that point I would have told her you would never consider working with such unprofessional people. There is not excuse for poor behavior - no matter how chaotic the day was.
Yeah, I'm going with I look like the woman her husband just left her for...
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If pushed again, you can always reply with, "I signed a contract stating I wouldn't disclose that information, so I'm afraid I cannot tell you."
That's the perfect reply, thank you! I could also use the old special forces jargon, 'I could tell ya... but, then I'd have to kill ya', but I'm not sure I'd get the job. Your statement is great. The only other one which came to mind would come across as too sarcastic... 'I've answered to the best of my ability'. So, I'll go with the bound by contract reply from now on.
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By the way, you shouldn't be embarrassed. She's the one who acted like a child and that's why everyone turned around to stare.
If you saw me tangled up in a doorknob for 5 seconds, you might think otherwise. Seriously, I hear what you're saying... I still ran out of the bldg to my car before water balloons were hurled from the window.
I would add, direct hire in IT - in a security related field? Maybe 1% of the jobs are direct hire.
Companies do not like to advertise for employees in IT security positions because they have to list which products they utilize. They don't want to tip off the bad guys. It is common sense.
It is not some sinister employer plot to pay you less, despite what MSchemist80 repeatedly claims. In fact, many of these jobs pay way more as a contract employee thru a staffing agency than what the employer actually pays their full time employees.
The company I am currently contracted to wants to hire me direct, but pays $40k a year less for this "privilege" than what I am getting now. I will keep as a contractor with them as long as I can, even though I would like to become an actual employee at some point.
Contractors have far less job security (one call to the agency and you're done), have no benefits at all, and are resources to be cut when times get lean and the FTEs stick around.
For instance, if I were a lender, I would not lend to anyone who is a contractor, just because of the transient nature of the work.
In my field It is a sinister attempt to pay less and be able to easily fire someone the second they decide they don't need them and hide head count. In my field the contact pimps pay as little as half of what companies do when they direct hire. As a result, the permatemp companies (many of the large corporations operate like this) have constant high turnover and awful morale and it has taken a huge toll on the profession. It is getting harder to find a competent analytical chemists with more than 5 year experience as by them most of the good ones have given up and said F this and left the field or went into teaching. I know I will rather than subject myself to those conditions ever again.
"I currently work at a well known F500 architecture and design services firm. My job search is confidential. My salary range is in the ballpark of $___to $____. - "what ballpark is currently within your company's budget?"
Most reputable and well established companies know the salary range for a particular occupation. They also have a budget. I expect them to know it and to figure it out, if they don't know it offhand.
Asking for personals like paystubs is unprofessional. It's provincial. It's underhanded because you can't prove what the real motive is. They can tell you anything. Besides too many people are suffering from identity theft and scams. That's another thing I want to stay away from.
Guaranteed way for your application to go in the reject file. Then you would go around and complain about not being hired.
Give them one loaded with every number on it redacted.
This is the best advice in this thread. If all they want is the paystub for employment verification, then the redactions shouldn't matter. If they have more devious reasons for requesting the paystub, they will make that clear and you will know to look elsewhere.
There a lot of people on these threads, complaining they have interviews and never get hired.
No wonder. They will not answer the questions they are asked. They will not supply the information that is requested. They tell how much they lie both on their application and at the interview.
All they are doing, is tell the HM or HR departments: 1: I am not a team player, and do things my way not yours. 2: No one is going to tell me what to do. 3: I don't care if I get this job or not, and want you to know I am not going to stick around long if I do get hired by your company.
They are telling the HM or HR person doing the interview, Hey I am a real good candidate to put my application in the Circular File (waste basket if you don't recognize the term).
You are not being hired, because you are telling the HM and HR people that you are not someone they want to have work at their business. In the business, they call it you are giving a negative reference for you being hired. All the good references you may provide, will not even be checked. You have given a negative reference, and that will always kill all the good references in the world, as they feel you know yourself best, and you have just shot down any chance of getting the job. When you are being interviewed, you may be technically and your experience puts you right at the top of the list. The interview will show what type of person you are, and how well you will fit into the organization. Pass it well, and you get the job.
Lets look at how many of you blow off the job. 1: Obvious lies, and avoid answering questions. 2: Refuse to answer some of the questions. 3: Refuse to supply certain things they ask for. Another one of those interviews where you do not get the job. Don't blame the interviewer, blame yourself. You are the one that kept you from getting the job.
If you have been to a number of interviews and no job, and you are well qualified, consider it is you that is killing your chances for the job.
I have only been around the business world over 60 years. I have been on both sides of the interview table, mostly on the HM side. I have only been turned down twice in my life when I had an interview. Once when the union would not let the manager hire me, insisting they bring up someone from within. And once when I took a test and failed. I failed because I was more sales oriented, than service oriented. I was, and the position was for someone that was more into giving a certain type of service not a salesman. When I had this pointed out to me, I knew they were right. That was in the morning, and had an even better job that afternoon.
Those that think hiring has changed and not easy like it was in the past. I only know the past for 60 plus years, so don't go back to those easy days when jobs were easier to get than today. In fact, they are easier to get than some times in the last 60 years.
There a lot of people on these threads, complaining they have interviews and never get hired. They will not answer the questions they are asked. They will not supply the information that is requested. They tell how much they lie both on their application and at the interview. All they are doing, is tell the HM or HR departments: 1: I am not a team player, and do things my way not yours. 2: No one is going to tell me what to do. 3: I don't care if I get this job or not, and want you to know I am not going to stick around long if I do get hired by your company.
Any & every advice column I've ever read has said not to give a salary & to let the interviewer do so first... that would mean do not supply a paystub on an initial interview. How many times have you been required to bring in a current paystub, in your over 60-yrs of working?
For some of us, many I'd guess, it's the opposite of what you've stated. I don't want to tell them I make twice what they're offering, because I need the job & don't wish to be immediately excluded, which has happened when I mentioned salary. But, in that scenario, you'd be happy that I answered the q... & I'd walk out still unemployed. Only the dense would do so & expect to receive different results each time.
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If you have been to a number of interviews and no job, and you are well qualified, consider it is you that is killing your chances for the job.
Gross generalization. Not everyone who can't find a job is doing something wrong. Many inept & incompetent people have jobs in which it's a wonder they ever passed any sort of interviewing process. There are a dozen reasons a great interview/resume/references doesn't prove fruitful for the job seeker.
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I have only been around the business world over 60 years. I only know the past for 60 plus years, so don't go back to those easy days when jobs were easier to get than today. In fact, they are easier to get than some times in the last 60 years.
That's your experience. Many of us aren't anywhere near as old & have seen the past decade, 2 or 3 change in difficulty in securing jobs. So much depends upon xxx... age, sex, job title, company culture, credentials, experience, city/state, number of jobs in that field in that city, personality, report with interviewer, etc. There are too many variables to say definitively that xxx is the culprit.
And, probably most of us have had good interviews, awful ones & everything in-between. Most of mine have been good. You? And, when I've conducted interviews, I made every effort to make the interviewee comfortable... I already know they're nervous, so I (& they) enjoy the process more if they're at ease & at their best. You? I like to treat human beings with respect & dignity, even the ones who've sat in front of me & weren't qualified in one way or another. Just because you're well over 60, doesn't mean you know any more than anyone else here. You, I & everyone else can only speak to personal experiences, nothing more. But, hearing stories of how others handle certain obstacles sometimes helps me, too. I'm happy to listen non-judgmentally to others' stories, whether I run into the same or not, or whether I'd do the same or not.
Have a good day.
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