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One of our local mcdonald's only hires minorities. I know this because the whole staff except for two or three people don't even speak english. When I filled out an application there, they seen that I had white skin and didn't speak spanish and decided not to call me for an interview. It's just like when you go to a dunkin donuts or some convenience store chain and everybody that works there is the same exact race like indians, etc. They only hire their own family.
One of our local mcdonald's only hires minorities. I know this because the whole staff except for two or three people don't even speak english. When I filled out an application there, they seen that I had white skin and didn't speak spanish and decided not to call me for an interview. It's just like when you go to a dunkin donuts or some convenience store chain and everybody that works there is the same exact race like indians, etc. They only hire their own family.
To be clear, when you say "miniorities" and "their own family," you're referring to illegal immigrants, yes?
I see no problem with them choosing to hire miniorities who are natural-born citizens or naturalized citizens.
The problem is "natives" shouldn't have to compete with immigrants for jobs. Or at the very least, they should be given priority in hiring, similar to the consideration veterans are given when applying for government jobs.
US values its immigrants especially since they create the most businesses by far. A policy like this yours would stifle growth.
In addition "native born Americans" have all the advantages of being here longer: knowing the culture, having family support, connections, paid in-state tuition (less loans if smart) etc...All the advantages are in favor of the American-born person. Immigrants have it pretty hard already.
I think this really just comes down to American-born being poorly equipped to take on the very hungry immigrant. That's no reason to stack the deck against immigrants.
If there's a financial advantage to a business to employ the lowest cost workers possible, they will do so until such time as it's no longer advantageous to their business (they don't care about a bigger societal picture).
Therefore, it's a conflict to claim libertarian/TP ideals of small government/lax regulation, while at the same time complaining about this issue and why "Americans" can't find jobs. There is no liberal party solution.
If people really want this problem solved, it's going to cost a lot of money and require a lot of enforcement. And that means a LOT of government. As far as I know, this is too big for any single state to handle. So folks in states where illegal immigration is not an issue are going to be asked to pay to fix it.
I can tell you that up here in PA, few people really give a crap about illegal immigration. I doubt it's a big issue in much of the Northeast, northern Plains or PNW. And if the SW states want a Federal solution with the appropriations necessary to fix the problem, that money is going to have to come from funds already earmarked for defense spending. Except not defense spending that is earmarked for pet projects in said states because those are "our" decent-paying jobs.
In other words, this problem is not going to be solved because no single politician or group of politicians can either develop or sell a plan that appeases both the states directly affected and those not affected. Not to mention appeasing business' interests, especially agricultural, which will have their lobbyists in pols faces 24/7 to fight any solution that might bubble up for a meaningful House/Senate vote.
So for our young people... deal with it. Or move to Canada. Because you're screwed. And nobody cares.
Complaining about H1B's in the tech industry has been going on now for at least 14 or so years. Consider this for a moment. Would you rather see H1B's or see the job get totally outsourced to another country? At least with visa holders they work here and spend money here. I knew back in 2000 that the tech industry was generally weak because lets face it, it's non physical work that does not change country to country. Code is code.
I just finished reading Flash Boys and it's about high speed trading. It turns out that many of the people that program in these programs are Russian. Why? Because when it was the Soviet Union they had little access to make programs so they pretty much had to maximize their time. Now the issue was they could not realistically sell their product which is also why the inventor of Tetris was probably the most ripped off man in human history.
Is it really that hard to program? Is it that hard to learn English? These days programming can be taught to middle schoolers if not younger. English is gradually becoming the lingua franca of the world. Openness, mobile internet and high speed internet pretty much changed the market. Proprietary systems eventually lose out to open ones. And of course they constantly make systems easier to use which opens it up to more people. Command line gave way to GUI's which now gave rise to apps. Publishers and manufacturers for software are non existent now just ask Comp USA and New Egg.
Complaining about H1B's in the tech industry has been going on now for at least 14 or so years. Consider this for a moment. Would you rather see H1B's or see the job get totally outsourced to another country? At least with visa holders they work here and spend money here. I knew back in 2000 that the tech industry was generally weak because lets face it, it's non physical work that does not change country to country. Code is code.
I just finished reading Flash Boys and it's about high speed trading. It turns out that many of the people that program in these programs are Russian. Why? Because when it was the Soviet Union they had little access to make programs so they pretty much had to maximize their time. Now the issue was they could not realistically sell their product which is also why the inventor of Tetris was probably the most ripped off man in human history.
Is it really that hard to program? Is it that hard to learn English? These days programming can be taught to middle schoolers if not younger. English is gradually becoming the lingua franca of the world. Openness, mobile internet and high speed internet pretty much changed the market. Proprietary systems eventually lose out to open ones. And of course they constantly make systems easier to use which opens it up to more people. Command line gave way to GUI's which now gave rise to apps. Publishers and manufacturers for software are non existent now just ask Comp USA and New Egg.
You must not be a programmer.
Any idiot can take pre-written modules and cobble them together into a program that functions only if it is used under very specific conditions. TCS is known for this.
The last job I had where I worked closely with offshore people and in-house TCS (Tata Consulting Services, an Indian firm) consultants, I had daily opportunities to closely scrutinize their code.
No commenting. No error handling of any kind. No flexibility. No restartability. You had to set the system up in an extremely specific manner in order for the code to run without errors, and of course no documentation was provided. No coding standards were followed and no "best practices" of any kind were adhered to. You could tell the modules were all from different authors simply by looking at the style and the use of whitespace. Some of the programmers used camel case, others used Pascal case. Some gave their variables sensible names, others named them "var1," "var2," etc. This lack of standardization makes the code harder to read and harder to support.
Basically, it was amateur hour.
They took a "one size fits all" approach to the integration they were paid to do and were working on an absurdly complex solution for a relatively simple integration. Their record-level storage staging was a joke. You had to use a string splitter to access the data elements and there was no need whatsoever for it when you could simply shred out the XML document-level stage using XQuery.
The lack of flexibility also meant that certain assumptions were made and hard-coded into the modules when flexibility was an absolute requirement in the requirements document that they signed off on. For example, all data in this system was integrated via flat files or XML files. Some of the flat files included a header row. Some didn't. The modules for integrating that data did NOT consider that and assumed that all flat files had a header row. So, on files that didn't have one, the first row of data was skipped. Genius.
Any idiot can take pre-written modules and cobble them together into a program that functions only if it is used under very specific conditions. TCS is known for this.
The last job I had where I worked closely with offshore people and in-house TCS (Tata Consulting Services, an Indian firm) consultants, I had daily opportunities to closely scrutinize their code.
No commenting. No error handling of any kind. No flexibility. No restartability. You had to set the system up in an extremely specific manner in order for the code to run without errors, and of course no documentation was provided. No coding standards were followed and no "best practices" of any kind were adhered to. You could tell the modules were all from different authors simply by looking at the style and the use of whitespace. Some of the programmers used camel case, others used Pascal case. Some gave their variables sensible names, others named them "var1," "var2," etc. This lack of standardization makes the code harder to read and harder to support.
Basically, it was amateur hour.
They took a "one size fits all" approach to the integration they were paid to do and were working on an absurdly complex solution for a relatively simple integration. Their record-level storage staging was a joke. You had to use a string splitter to access the data elements and there was no need whatsoever for it when you could simply shred out the XML document-level stage using XQuery.
The lack of flexibility also meant that certain assumptions were made and hard-coded into the modules when flexibility was an absolute requirement in the requirements document that they signed off on. For example, all data in this system was integrated via flat files or XML files. Some of the flat files included a header row. Some didn't. The modules for integrating that data did NOT consider that and assumed that all flat files had a header row. So, on files that didn't have one, the first row of data was skipped. Genius.
I wish all the companies out there that off-shore their development work would read your post and get it printed in their minds. Maybe they would think twice about using that model. The other problem is, many of the large tech companies are establishing large R&D centers in other countries. The knowledge base for new product development is being formed and expanded outside the US. There is a large computer storage company where I live that has established the R&D function for their flash based products in Israel. A job in that division would be a perfect fit for my personality and skill set, but I'll most likely never see the center come to the US.
I'm not talking about ILLEGAL immigrants here. I'm talking about the hordes of Indian (and to a lesser extent Bangladeshi, Pakistani, and Chinese) H1-B holders who have infiltrated IT departments across the US.
15 years ago you'd see a handful of them in an IT department...maybe 3-4 out of 40 people. Now, they often comprise half the department, sometimes more. Some houses are 80-90% Indian. They've basically taken over IT here.
Since they look out for their own pretty blatantly, it puts non-Asians at a disadvantage. Couple that with cultural differences, them coming from patriarchal societies where womens' opinions are at best considered of less value than mens' opinions, and a frustratingly common lack of respect for Americans' capabilities and work-life balance...and you've got the hell that is IT in DFW these days.
The overwhelming majority of these workers are legal immigrants. Many have been here long enough to transition to green cards, and many are also now US citizens. That doesn't mean they're assimilating into our society, though, or that they have any respect for our values or our way of life. They're just here to live "the good life" and make money. These people are NOT cutting grass and cleaning houses. No, no, no. They're here filling white-collar jobs that rightfully belong to American citizens.
Both illegal land legal immigrants are exploited by employers and both drive salaries and benefits down. They also undermine unionized labor. The difference is just that the legal immigrants are hired legally and so pay income-taxes and the illegal immigrant (often) pays nothing other than what he pays for his consumption while being in the state. What I find most amusing is that unions, democrats and the media-left actively work for a political and economical policy that leads to lower salaries, lesser benefits and more unemployment among the poor, working-class and partly the young middle class. This is not only the case in United States but all over the Western world. The socialists, greens and liberals – who like to claim they are on the side of “poor” - support policies that is straight out destructive for the working class. You see far-left African-Americans leaders support illegal immigration in solidarity. A world without borders they say. The consequence if of course that poor African-American is displaced from the labor-market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk
Not entirely. ILLEGAL immigrants and often will work under the table or cash only which in the long run is cheaper as employers don't have to technically pay payroll taxes and benefits. It's not just the salaries, it's the taxes. When you add in legal immigration like H1-B visa holders, it's a bit different and they start to want benefits and would need to require a little bit of a higher salary.
Yes, illegal will work for cash under the table because of they didn’t they would be exposed and of course a employer don’t want to pay taxes for them. Legal immigrants are also over-represented when it comes to take cash under the table andn they work for less.Some legal immigrants (some groups from Asia and Europe) give a positive cash-flow to United States but the rest of them are a net-cost of United States. There are two solutions – either you limit immigration and only let those who are a benefit to United States (likes investors and others) immigrate or you have an open border policy - which would lead to certain interesting effects on the economy but the debate about immigration would be over.
Last edited by Sconesforme; 06-29-2014 at 09:11 AM..
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