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Old 12-13-2015, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
9,136 posts, read 8,533,502 times
Reputation: 15827

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Item1of1 View Post
Well, let's put it this way: if you were hiring for a position that "required" some amount of experience, and you had a large pool of applicants none of which met that requirement, would you take the most qualified of the bunch?
By using the scare quotes around "required" you imply that job postings are confusing required items with preferred. I am sure it happens in some places, but I make sure that my descriptions are accurate. If I post something as required, then I will not hire unless the candidate has that experience/credential/education. Sure, there can be fuzzy grey areas, where a candidate has more experience, but less education, or vice versa. In cases like this I would consider making an exception to my posted requirements, but that seems like a pretty common sense approach to me

No, I would not hire anybody as you describe.

Quote:
To put it another way: why don't hiring managers know what they really want? I've seen articles on blog sites with hiring managers who seemingly complain about how they get so many under-qualified applicants. Then I see articles where they seem to have issues retaining people (even using the perceived threat of "job-hopping" as a justification to no longer train new hires).
Yes, I know what I really want. Yes, I get a lot of under qualified applicants, but that doesn't really bother me. I simply put their application in the reject pile. As for retaining people, I don't have that problem. I have people with decades of tenure at my employer. The entry level, low skil, low pay positions turn over more frequently, but that is ok. I hired somebody with no skill or experience, and they gain a year or two of skill and experience and become more marketable.

I sit down with each of my employees when they start to max out and tell them that. If they are in an entry level position and I don't have a clear promitional path for them, I tell them when they should start looking. I have placed many with colleagues who had a need for somebody with decent training and a couple of years of experience.

Not all employees take my advice, and I have several who have been in entry level positions for many years. That is their choice.

Quote:
Well, guess what - if you hire overqualified people for a position, they'll jump ship as soon as they can. (An extreme case would be a technically skilled person working at a retail position - first chance they get, they're moving on.)
Yes, you are correct. It has to be a special circumstance for an overqualified person to be happy at a lower level job. I don't hire people who are overqualified.
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Old 12-13-2015, 08:02 AM
 
104 posts, read 61,667 times
Reputation: 140
Sorry - I didn't mean for my quotes to scare you I've just seen some ads asking for (for example) 3-5 years experience, or 1-3 or 0-2, and really I feel like a lot of learning can happen in the span of two years to the point where it seems almost arbitrary to make that designation, to say nothing of the vagaries of what skills people of different levels of intelligence are able to acquire in the same amount of time.

Anyway, I am guessing we will have to agree to disagree that hiring experienced people for entry-level positions would constitute hiring an overqualified person.
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Old 12-13-2015, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
9,136 posts, read 8,533,502 times
Reputation: 15827
Sure, asking for 0-2, 3-5, or whatever years of experience is a bit arbitrary. That is why you have interviews, so you can dial in on any given candidates skill level.

Plus, what is the alternative? Should employers advertise openings with no experience guidelines? I can see the ad now. Looking for a diesel technician. Experience required. We don't know how much.

As for hiring somebody with a year of experience over somebody with none, that is not over qualified. That is hiring somebody with a proven aptitude for the job who needs less training.

Again, I am going to throw it back at you. If entry level is strictly defined a zero experience, then what do people with 6 months of experience do? Are they to be frozen out if the job market because they have too much exp for entry level, but not enough for skilled?
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Old 12-13-2015, 02:57 PM
 
104 posts, read 61,667 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains View Post
Plus, what is the alternative? Should employers advertise openings with no experience guidelines? I can see the ad now. Looking for a diesel technician. Experience required. We don't know how much.
Well, like I said, hiring managers need to know what they want. If there's a mismatch, it's because the qualifications don't meet the needs and the needs don't meet the qualifications. It takes two to tango - but there is no limit to the number of people that can passively stand idly on opposite sides of the dance floor, stewing in their bizarrely out-of-touch expectations. I've met job seekers with outrageous entitlement complexes, but it absolutely goes the other way as well.

Quote:
Again, I am going to throw it back at you. If entry level is strictly defined a zero experience, then what do people with 6 months of experience do? Are they to be frozen out if the job market because they have too much exp for entry level, but not enough for skilled?
If entry level is strictly defined as zero experience, people with 6 months experience would seemingly be perfect for a job which needed someone with 6 months experience to do (or 0-1 or 0-2 or something like that).

I don't know whose job it is to carry the torch of what is right and just in the job market. Certainly I wouldn't want to freeze anyone out, but then again, I am clearly an outlier - to go back to an earlier example, if I had a pool of only-unqualified candidates my intuition would be to re-evaluate my expectations and/or simply take the best of that pool and commit to training them.
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Old 12-13-2015, 05:14 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
13,343 posts, read 17,522,048 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Item1of1 View Post
If entry level is strictly defined as zero experience, people with 6 months experience would seemingly be perfect for a job which needed someone with 6 months experience to do (or 0-1 or 0-2 or something like that).
So is a job that requires 0-1 years experience an entry-level position?
Clearly, for this position, a person with 1-yr experience is probably better qualified than a person with 0-yr experience.
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Old 12-13-2015, 05:19 PM
 
104 posts, read 61,667 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaypee View Post
So is a job that requires 0-1 years experience an entry-level position?
Clearly, for this position, a person with 1-yr experience is probably better qualified than a person with 0-yr experience.
Good question - that would be one to run by the OP since it was his experiences as a recent college grad that he was relating.

I personally tend to think of anything other than zero experience as, by definition "experienced" and, ultimately 0-1 most definitely is the type of posting I'd expect from a hiring manager who clearly did not know what he/she wanted or needed. After all, there are eight-week web dev boot camps that can turn zeros into heroes - imagine the difference a year makes!
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Old 12-13-2015, 08:35 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
9,136 posts, read 8,533,502 times
Reputation: 15827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Item1of1 View Post
Good question - that would be one to run by the OP since it was his experiences as a recent college grad that he was relating.

I personally tend to think of anything other than zero experience as, by definition "experienced" and, ultimately 0-1 most definitely is the type of posting I'd expect from a hiring manager who clearly did not know what he/she wanted or needed. After all, there are eight-week web dev boot camps that can turn zeros into heroes - imagine the difference a year makes!
0-1 years experience is pretty clear to me. The HM wants a person with a little experience, but is willing to take somebody with none.

You keep thinking that a year or two makes a person highly experienced. That is absolutely not true. I know much more now than I did 5 years ago, and 5 years ago I knew more than I did 5 years prior to that.

Quote:
to go back to an earlier example, if I had a pool of only-unqualified candidates my intuition would be to re-evaluate my expectations and/or simply take the best of that pool and commit to training them.
This isn't always an option. Would you hire a vet if you really needed a heart surgeon? How about a bookkeeper if you needed an accountant? A carpenter if you needed a structural engineer?
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