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Old 12-12-2015, 05:21 PM
 
89 posts, read 53,619 times
Reputation: 146

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroWord View Post
Ok, I would like to apologize ahead of time if my words offend anyone.

Based on my experience, having advance degrees and experience do not automatically make one better for the job.

I've noticed that too many these days with advance degrees feel that they are more capable than they really are just because of their advance degrees. I'm a middle manager. Among those who have worked directly under me have been guys with masters and many years more experience than I do in this profession. When upper management people come around to visit and find out how little experience I have compared to some people here, they always comment you seem to have a lot more experience than that. I always answer nope I've only been doing this that long.

I keep trying to explain to people. It's not how much you've worked. It's not how hard you work. It's not how many degrees you have. It's not even how many years of experience in the field you have under your belt. Too many people these days feel entitled to positions that they aren't capable of fulfilling.

Anyone who's ever hired people know what I'm talking about. Most of the time, you can't really tell how well someone will perform until you've hired him and watch him perform. I've only been doing this a few years and my boss tells me my work is a lot more precise than the guy my company just let go. That guy has a double masters and has been doing this for 15+ years.

Please understand I'm not belittling experience or education. Just know that you are the worst judgment of your own capabilities. We as human beings tend to have an overinflated ego, and that goes for me, too. That's why we have to rely on feedbacks from other people.
I appreciate your comments. I'm not sure why this has turned into a discussion about how worthless graduate degrees are. I just felt that the chosen candidates were extremely unimpressive overall. There was another new hire there, also in her very early 20s, training for the same rock bottom position I was. She impressed the heck out of me even though she was fresh out of college. She was professional and really eager to meet people and learn. I can't understand why she would get a lesser position either, and if she had been the one I had been passed over for, I might have understood why. Something just doesn't add up about the two who got the higher positions, and it has nothing to do with the lack of degrees or experience.

Thanks,

Candy
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Old 12-12-2015, 08:43 PM
 
1,378 posts, read 1,124,131 times
Reputation: 2202
Talk about a kick in the gut! But, I strongly believe things happen for a reason. Sometimes we have to feel the burn to kickstart us into action. Try not to internalize it. Instead get prepared for a shift. The universe orchestrated this scenario to get you ready for something else. Go ahead and have your robe-weekend-crying session. But, don't spend alot of time focusing so much on this problem that you fail to see other possibilities that are sitting in front of you. Do speak to your boss to gain clarity. And try as best as you can to keep emotion out of the conversation. You never know. They may have something else in mind for you. Give it a chance. You are in control of this. Good luck.
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Old 12-12-2015, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Planet Woof
3,139 posts, read 3,528,629 times
Reputation: 9889
Candy-
I get where you are coming from totally. I am older than you and likely in a different professional field, but I can relate. 15 years ago I could get any job I wanted. I have multiple degrees and extensive experience and am no slouch in the personality department either. I have an out-going, articulate, and very personable manner and have received so many good comments from clients and co-workers over the years. But now I feel like a leper in my field and cannot for the life of me get a job after many interviews.
And I too have seen what is being hired and they generally are younger, awkward, inexperienced, and less educated. I figure it's about salary, but then I've said I'd take the budgeted salary for the position applied for, and still get passed over.
So I figure it's like on the show ''Survivor'' where the alphas vote off those not like them in terms of age, personality, background, etc..
And I DID give up and have been in a retail job that I like and where I have wonderful, non-pretentious co-workers and managers who tell me how much I am appreciated. I got my first raise and will go to full-time with benefits in 6 months.
I just got sick of the BS too!
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Old 12-12-2015, 11:39 PM
 
5,182 posts, read 2,632,766 times
Reputation: 6590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Candyphd View Post
I appreciate your comments. I'm not sure why this has turned into a discussion about how worthless graduate degrees are. I just felt that the chosen candidates were extremely unimpressive overall. There was another new hire there, also in her very early 20s, training for the same rock bottom position I was. She impressed the heck out of me even though she was fresh out of college. She was professional and really eager to meet people and learn. I can't understand why she would get a lesser position either, and if she had been the one I had been passed over for, I might have understood why. Something just doesn't add up about the two who got the higher positions, and it has nothing to do with the lack of degrees or experience.

Thanks,

Candy
I'm not going to dispute anything you say because I don't know the details behind your situation.

Allow me to offer another explanation.

My boss and I have become great friends. We regularly buy each other lunches. We text back and forth regularly, even during our off time.

One time, I asked him if he could tell me the direction upper management (to which he is a part of) wants to take the team toward. He told me a few things, some plans that they'd come up with, blah blah blah.

At one point, he mentioned to me that they at some point decided to hire more young blood than older, more experienced workers. Why? Because they did that in the past but most of the time they kept ending up getting someone who had some kind of bad habits brought over from other companies. So, the idea this time is they'd seek out young talents and try to mold them before they develop bad habits.

I actually understand where he's coming from. I work with a couple older guys who came from other companies. They each have 15-20 years experience. I've definitely observed some bad habits that they have. The worst part is every time someone tries to point out their errors or correct them, they always lock up and say "I've been doing this for blah blah blah". It's actually kind of frustrating at times. Me and another guy have pretty much given up on getting these older guys to do things the correct way and just make the correction ourselves after they've submitted their work.

Like I said before, having advance degrees and years and years and years of experience doesn't mean much if one isn't willing to learn or see the error of one's way.

Also, I should add that I'm not belittling advance degrees. I've a masters in engineering. I'm not saying advance degrees are useless. I'm saying having an advance degree doesn't automatically make someone capable. Neither does experience. I don't know what field you are in, but I've found that in engineering one either gets it or not. I've worked with people that have been doing this for 10-15 years and they still don't get it. The worst part of it all is because they simply don't get it they are not capable of recognizing that they don't get it or why.

Allow me to suggest a good read for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunnin...3Kruger_effect
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Old 12-13-2015, 01:20 AM
 
Location: Planet Woof
3,139 posts, read 3,528,629 times
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I don't agree with the above, in my experience now at my present job .
Where I work most of us are 50+ years old! Reason? They say the ''youngins'' have no ''staying power'', call off when they don't feel like working, don't want to learn as they think they know it all, and just do the bare minimum to get by.
I think it depends on who is doing the hiring.
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Old 12-13-2015, 10:35 AM
 
5,182 posts, read 2,632,766 times
Reputation: 6590
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelinLow View Post
I don't agree with the above, in my experience now at my present job .
Where I work most of us are 50+ years old! Reason? They say the ''youngins'' have no ''staying power'', call off when they don't feel like working, don't want to learn as they think they know it all, and just do the bare minimum to get by.
I think it depends on who is doing the hiring.
Last month, upper management "laid off" some people. In construction, it is not unusual to see people laid off for the winter time when construction shuts down. In reality, those who underperformed are the ones that are laid off and those who work with a certain level of quality go into design and planning to prepare for the following construction season.

Anyway, among those who got "laid off" were the ones that took days off without telling anybody, made too many errors in their calculations, and worked the absolute minimum that they could get away with. I've been told by upper management that half of those guys won't be coming back.

I don't know what industry you are in, but here in engineering and construction I can't stand dead weights.
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Old 12-13-2015, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Upper St. Clair, PA
367 posts, read 321,345 times
Reputation: 994
Quote:
Originally Posted by Candyphd View Post
I interviewed for two jobs at the same institution. One pays double what the other does. I know I gave a great interview both times, but I only got an offer for the lower paying one.


I debated whether or not to even take it. I thought, well, they must know what they are doing. The chosen candidates must have more experience, etc. They probably don't even bring people in from the outside except for entry level. I think, OK, I'll take it, swallow my pride, work my way up, show them what I can do, and go for a promotion as soon as I can.


Day 2 of training--in which I am killing it--I realize I am in the same training group as the two people selected for the two higher paying jobs. I won't get into details, but I felt like I was punched in the gut. I went home and cried that night, and I don't ever cry. No WAY they have a PhD or even a Master's like I do, as they can't be more than college aged. One person is basically mute and completely antisocial, in dress and behavior, and the other wears combat boots and tights with holes in them to the training for a PROFESSIONAL job. When asked who is new to the organization, they both raise their hand. Oh, and neither is bilingual, which is what the job posting listed as "strongly preferred." And they're also about 20 years younger than me. BUT I am still in my early 40s, great work experience, impeccable references, bilingual. I look much younger than I am and wore a suit or a professional outfit each day of training last week. I smiled, I chatted, I shook hands, I was rainbows and sunshine.
Are you sure you weren't overqualified for this position (even the higher one?) If the position can go to someone without a Masters or PhD, then they may fear that the person with the Masters or PhD will bolt out of there for something better in 3-6 months. The lesser qualified then you, but still qualified enough for the job may be more of a long term fit.

I'm not defending the mindset, just that it is a mindset. Likely the lesser job offer was a courtesy offer for them to say they extended something to you and know you would never accept it.
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Old 12-13-2015, 11:14 AM
 
260 posts, read 180,123 times
Reputation: 439
I wish I could respond to your question without someone getting offended. I'm afraid it's not possible because people tend to live in their emotions. But I would talk with your boss. I work in a law firm and I know exactly what you mean. It's not an appearance thing, someone being the wrong fit for the job just jumps out at you. But of course we can't pretend that their attire isn't odd. You can be as PC as you want, someone who has gauges and visible, colorful tattoos and flip flops wouldn't be odd.

There are exceptions to every rule, but yes- someone's appearance gives you big clues about their personality. It's how you're presenting yourself
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Old 12-13-2015, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
43,617 posts, read 42,225,424 times
Reputation: 84036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Candyphd View Post
I agree with you 100%, but it's not the appearance. I would never judge anyone by their appearance.
If this is true, why did you spend so much time describing their and your appearances???
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Old 12-13-2015, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica, Ca
6,985 posts, read 3,896,580 times
Reputation: 16677
Sometimes our employers don't have the same high opinion of ourselves as we do...
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