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Old 12-13-2015, 05:24 PM
 
6,904 posts, read 3,754,280 times
Reputation: 18251

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Quote:
Originally Posted by picklejuice View Post
Is it possible they only look young?

Also, the combat boot clad gal could possibly have an advance degree from the likes of Berkeley or another prestigious university!

You just can't judge a book by its cover! Trust me!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Candyphd View Post
I spent a lot of time with these people this week and it's the behavior that tips me off. No eye contact with anyone, afraid or unable to contribute to the group discussion, not one innovative thought or question, and just generally amateurish. You can't get through a graduate program in my field--and especially not from Berkeley or the like--without being at least a little assertive and confident.


If Combat Boot gal had said or done anything worthwhile over the last five days, believe me, I would not be giving her the side eye at all.
I don't know about the OP's field, but in mine it's not hard for someone who knows to spot someone who doesn't. They can fool management, but they can't fool those of us who actually do the job.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelinLow View Post
Candy-
I get where you are coming from totally. I am older than you and likely in a different professional field, but I can relate. 15 years ago I could get any job I wanted. I have multiple degrees and extensive experience and am no slouch in the personality department either. I have an out-going, articulate, and very personable manner and have received so many good comments from clients and co-workers over the years. But now I feel like a leper in my field and cannot for the life of me get a job after many interviews.
And I too have seen what is being hired and they generally are younger, awkward, inexperienced, and less educated. I figure it's about salary, but then I've said I'd take the budgeted salary for the position applied for, and still get passed over.
So I figure it's like on the show ''Survivor'' where the alphas vote off those not like them in terms of age, personality, background, etc..
The change I've noticed. When I started, most of the managers had worked their way up from practicing scientists and engineers so they knew the business inside and out. And they could out engineer those they managed. Today however many/most managers come in from the outside and have never done the job they now manage. So talented staff are a threat to them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroWord View Post
Anyone who's ever hired people know what I'm talking about. Most of the time, you can't really tell how well someone will perform until you've hired him and watch him perform. I've only been doing this a few years and my boss tells me my work is a lot more precise than the guy my company just let go. That guy has a double masters and has been doing this for 15+ years.

.

I agree with your statement. But it does seem more managers would rather hire the person who isn't as thorough because they won't come up with the detailed analysis that shows the manager's bright idea isn't. They would rather hire someone who is less of a threat.
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Old 12-13-2015, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Brentwood, Tennessee
43,544 posts, read 42,115,885 times
Reputation: 83782
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
But it does seem more managers would rather hire the person who isn't as thorough because they won't come up with the detailed analysis that shows the manager's bright idea isn't. They would rather hire someone who is less of a threat.
I can't believe people actually think this.

How long do you actually think anyone would last in a position by wasting company time and $$ on poor hires because they "aren't a threat???"

FWIW, no one "deserves" a job. Interviewees have no idea about what happens in other interviews, or what the needs are from the company perspective. As an employee, the minute you start looking around at other employees and comparing yourself to them and what they have or what they're getting, you are dead in the water.

Entitlement and superiority are not attributes.
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Old 12-13-2015, 06:23 PM
 
Location: sumter
8,648 posts, read 5,420,434 times
Reputation: 6632
Quote:
Originally Posted by picklejuice View Post
Is it possible they only look young?

Also, the combat boot clad gal could possibly have an advance degree from the likes of Berkeley or another prestigious university!

You just can't judge a book by its cover! Trust me!
Absolutely right about that.
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Old 12-13-2015, 07:06 PM
 
89 posts, read 53,479 times
Reputation: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovely40 View Post
Talk about a kick in the gut! But, I strongly believe things happen for a reason. Sometimes we have to feel the burn to kickstart us into action. Try not to internalize it. Instead get prepared for a shift. The universe orchestrated this scenario to get you ready for something else. Go ahead and have your robe-weekend-crying session. But, don't spend alot of time focusing so much on this problem that you fail to see other possibilities that are sitting in front of you. Do speak to your boss to gain clarity. And try as best as you can to keep emotion out of the conversation. You never know. They may have something else in mind for you. Give it a chance. You are in control of this. Good luck.
This is a really great, positive perspective. I thought about it all weekend, and the things that matter most to me are very well at the moment, and that's all that matters. I will keep asking for things to work out in the best way possible, whatever that may be. Maybe this is not for me. It's simply out of my control. I have done the best I could possibly do at every turn, and if they don't want me, they don't want me. So be it.

Seriously, I feel your good energy from here. Thank you for wour kind words

Candy
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Old 12-13-2015, 07:14 PM
 
89 posts, read 53,479 times
Reputation: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelinLow View Post
Candy-
I get where you are coming from totally. I am older than you and likely in a different professional field, but I can relate. 15 years ago I could get any job I wanted. I have multiple degrees and extensive experience and am no slouch in the personality department either. I have an out-going, articulate, and very personable manner and have received so many good comments from clients and co-workers over the years. But now I feel like a leper in my field and cannot for the life of me get a job after many interviews.
And I too have seen what is being hired and they generally are younger, awkward, inexperienced, and less educated. I figure it's about salary, but then I've said I'd take the budgeted salary for the position applied for, and still get passed over.
So I figure it's like on the show ''Survivor'' where the alphas vote off those not like them in terms of age, personality, background, etc..
And I DID give up and have been in a retail job that I like and where I have wonderful, non-pretentious co-workers and managers who tell me how much I am appreciated. I got my first raise and will go to full-time with benefits in 6 months.
I just got sick of the BS too!
Thank you so much for sharing that. My husband is ten years older than me and is just getting a taste of what you describe. I think it just happens to the vast majority of us, and all we can do is try to cope as best as possible, which is what you are doing. I am glad to hear you like your new job and coworkers, that makes all the difference in the world. I am thinking hard about the next step and I will probably be going in your direction.

The older I get, the more I realize everything is just luck. Hard work and education has limits. It would be nice if that weren't true. How else could you possibly explain Paris Hilton?

Candy
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Old 12-13-2015, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
21,231 posts, read 11,873,904 times
Reputation: 32306
I've been on both sides - in one job, I was the person with less experience (same education, though) as many others and for whatever reasons, upper mgmt put me on the fast track. I honestly couldn't tell you what I did that was different than others, but I got promoted about 5 times in less than 2 years.

On the other hand, I also was in a job where someone was hired over me who had no clue about what I did but they were supposed to supervise me. When I left, they had a very difficult time finding anyone to replace me and that person was supposed to cover my job but was not capable of doing so - they left less than 6 months after I did because they couldn't hack it. Why were they hired as my manager instead of promoting me? I have no idea.

I think sometimes you just have to shrug and walk away when you are in the latter situation - and when you happen to be in the former situation, you realize that sometimes it's just luck and not because you are in some way a better or more deserving person.
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Old 12-13-2015, 07:24 PM
 
89 posts, read 53,479 times
Reputation: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessica2099 View Post
Are you sure you weren't overqualified for this position (even the higher one?) If the position can go to someone without a Masters or PhD, then they may fear that the person with the Masters or PhD will bolt out of there for something better in 3-6 months. The lesser qualified then you, but still qualified enough for the job may be more of a long term fit.

I'm not defending the mindset, just that it is a mindset. Likely the lesser job offer was a courtesy offer for them to say they extended something to you and know you would never accept it.
Yes, I totally understand what you are saying. Agreed, I am probably overqualified for the better job too. However, without being too specific, the jobs at my level in my field are not where I live. And I can't go to where those jobs are right now. And you are right, they probably never in a million years thought I would take the lesser job, and I probably shouldn't have. But the sad reality is that I need to work -- we need the money. So what do you do? I mean, I just swallowed my pride and said yes. But DAMN it's hard to do that. My brain wanted to do it, but my heart just wouldn't go along with the plan.

Thanks for your thoughts

Candy
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Old 12-13-2015, 07:28 PM
 
89 posts, read 53,479 times
Reputation: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelinLow View Post
I don't agree with the above, in my experience now at my present job .
Where I work most of us are 50+ years old! Reason? They say the ''youngins'' have no ''staying power'', call off when they don't feel like working, don't want to learn as they think they know it all, and just do the bare minimum to get by.
I think it depends on who is doing the hiring.
YES! There are professions where age is revered, not considered a liability. Every college professor I ever had that was worth a damn was at retirement age or even older than that.

Candy
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Old 12-13-2015, 07:36 PM
 
89 posts, read 53,479 times
Reputation: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by iDothisoften View Post
I wish I could respond to your question without someone getting offended. I'm afraid it's not possible because people tend to live in their emotions. But I would talk with your boss. I work in a law firm and I know exactly what you mean. It's not an appearance thing, someone being the wrong fit for the job just jumps out at you. But of course we can't pretend that their attire isn't odd. You can be as PC as you want, someone who has gauges and visible, colorful tattoos and flip flops wouldn't be odd.

There are exceptions to every rule, but yes- someone's appearance gives you big clues about their personality. It's how you're presenting yourself
Thank you. It's about fit. At Disney for example, they tell you what kind of earrings to wear and how long your fingernails should be. It is simply the image that they want to project, and you are either with the program or you're not. It's just one of many requirements of a job. Try going into a professional kitchen with a bunch of rings on your fingers. You take them off or you don't work, end of discussion. (Hygiene reasons.) The red faced chef screaming in your face will tip you off to the dress code

By the way, 48 hours and still no response to my email explaining that I am not happy with the position. I am fully expecting the boot around 9 am tomorrow morning.

Damn, I've never been fired before. A whole new set of emotions should be coming right up

I'll let you guys know what happens, I promise.

Candy
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Old 12-13-2015, 07:45 PM
 
89 posts, read 53,479 times
Reputation: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
I've been on both sides - in one job, I was the person with less experience (same education, though) as many others and for whatever reasons, upper mgmt put me on the fast track. I honestly couldn't tell you what I did that was different than others, but I got promoted about 5 times in less than 2 years.

On the other hand, I also was in a job where someone was hired over me who had no clue about what I did but they were supposed to supervise me. When I left, they had a very difficult time finding anyone to replace me and that person was supposed to cover my job but was not capable of doing so - they left less than 6 months after I did because they couldn't hack it. Why were they hired as my manager instead of promoting me? I have no idea.

I think sometimes you just have to shrug and walk away when you are in the latter situation - and when you happen to be in the former situation, you realize that sometimes it's just luck and not because you are in some way a better or more deserving person.
Yes, couldn't agree more. As I said in another post, I also believe most things are just luck, being in the right place at the right time, someone likes you (or doesn't). Working hard is very important, but it's only part of the equation. It's a necessary part, but not everything.

I know I put forth all I had. You know, for the panel interview I prepared two presentations on two different topics, although I was only asked for one, and I let them choose the one they wanted to hear. And on three days' notice. I really, really tried. I do feel good about that.

Shrugging.

Thanks,

Candy
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