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I can't believe people don't realize this happens. You're making the classic assumption that managers make logical decisions based on business case. Unfortunately far too often they make decisions based on personal goals, not business ones or for their own emotional satisfaction.
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Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life
How long do you actually think anyone would last in a position by wasting company time and $$ on poor hires because they "aren't a threat???"
Actually the life cycle for those managers seems to be between 18 months to two years. That's how long it takes them to parlay the current job into the next job, and it takes about two years for their trail of poor decisions to stack up. The ones who get another job before two years have managed to get promotions. The ones who hung around longer than two years finally had the problems catch up and were quietly moved aside. But never fired.
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Originally Posted by Wmsn4Life
FWIW, no one "deserves" a job. Interviewees have no idea about what happens in other interviews, or what the needs are from the company perspective. As an employee, the minute you start looking around at other employees and comparing yourself to them and what they have or what they're getting, you are dead in the water.
Two points. First I am a hiring manager and have also been a participate on other's hiring panels. So I know what I look for in a candidate vs what they look for. And I can guarantee you that some managers are amazingly candid about why they did or did not pick someone.
Secondly, normally I'd agree about comparing yourself to others, except in much of today's market, at least in the field I'm in, management has explicitly put employees in competition with one another. Heck it's designed right into the annual appraisal and awards system under the false assumption that competition among employees leads to better performance, when in reality it leads to withholding information and destroys teamwork.
I think the entitlement and superiority comment was meant for me.
And I agree with you about the fact that putting employees in direct competition with one another is intentional. Why would they put me in training with the people who got the good job? (It actually felt cruel, although I know it wasn't meant to be. It was more of an oversight, I think.) Why would they spend hours showing Power Points with organizational charts, along with the names and headshots of every person in the place, discussing who does what, how long they've been there, how amazing they are at their jobs, etc. I don't need to know all that; those same people barely looked at me once they knew my level. It does seem as if management wants you to compare yourself with others, or aspire to be like the others.
It's a challenging area of study, but definitely not a STEM field, which is probably why I am in this pickle in the first place. Nobody to blame for that one except me. But I made that choice over 20 years ago, and it seemed reasonable then. Today I would definitely go into a science.
Waiting tables would pay more than the job I turned down. I've waitressed before, and I like it.
What is wrong with waiting tables? It's an honest living. Please take time to reflect on your own comments.
There's nothing wrong with waiting tables.
The problem is that your claims of worth and motivation don't match with your actions. What you have done now is the "adult" equivalent of taking your ball and running home because the game wasn't going the way you wanted it to. ("I am the better candidate because I dress better and have a PhD but I'm just gonna go wait tables!" ).
Instead of considering that perhaps you aren't the total package, you turn full force on the company and blame them for not recognizing your worth, all the while denigrating those around you.
As a company owner, I've interviewed people with all kinds of certifications and degrees. Many times they are shotgun attempts to move up the chain, or even last-ditch efforts by a company to salvage an underperforming employee. The person who touted her experience at multiple communication seminars didn't realize that her previous company sent her there because she was a terrible communicator, and it was impeding her ability to manage a team.
As always, start by looking within.
I am very interested to know what industry we're talking about also.
It's a challenging area of study, but definitely not a STEM field, which is probably why I am in this pickle in the first place. Nobody to blame for that one except me. But I made that choice over 20 years ago, and it seemed reasonable then. Today I would definitely go into a science.
The problem is that your claims of worth and motivation don't match with your actions. What you have done now is the "adult" equivalent of taking your ball and running home because the game wasn't going the way you wanted it to. ("I am the better candidate because I dress better and have a PhD but I'm just gonna go wait tables!" ).
Instead of considering that perhaps you aren't the total package, you turn full force on the company and blame them for not recognizing your worth, all the while denigrating those around you.
As a company owner, I've interviewed people with all kinds of certifications and degrees. Many times they are shotgun attempts to move up the chain, or even last-ditch efforts by a company to salvage an underperforming employee. The person who touted her experience at multiple communication seminars didn't realize that her previous company sent her there because she was a terrible communicator, and it was impeding her ability to manage a team.
As always, start by looking within.
I am very interested to know what industry we're talking about also.
Employment is a business arrangement. The arrangement they proposed did not suit my needs. Simple. And what I choose to do after that in my own career is my business.
I'm wondering the same thing. I'm going to guess a position in the social services field. They are relatively low paying positions, even for people with advanced degrees.
OP, did you talk to the manager about what he/she saw in you that made you a better fit for the lower paying position? This would have been a great opportunity for some valuable feedback.
Employment is a business arrangement. The arrangement they proposed did not suit my needs. Simple. And what I choose to do after that in my own career is my business.
I'm sorry this is making you so angry.
Candy
Nice deflection, although you made it "our business" by posting here.
You were being judgmental and entitled and now are trying to save face, but you missed the cut-off for the high road.
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Originally Posted by dmills
I'm wondering the same thing. I'm going to guess a position in the social services field. They are relatively low paying positions, even for people with advanced degrees.
Yep, or academia.
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Originally Posted by dmills
OP, did you talk to the manager about what he/she saw in you that made you a better fit for the lower paying position? This would have been a great opportunity for some valuable feedback.
After burn out in managing retail stores. I was sick of working on weekends, I was sick of going to work when everyone was getting off. I was sick of the long hours. My brother left retail management and he's in banking. There were a few positions available in the Insurance Dept. I figure I use to own my own agency, did all sorts of things a business owner would do as far as business and insurance is concern. I applied. Didn't even get an interview. The job was filled by a bunch of people who knew nothing about insurance. Go figure.
They told me I was qualify to be a bank teller though because I use to handle lots of money in retail management. I figure why not, I always wanted to go back to college and get my Masters degree. I can also work there and move up.
During the first day of company training/orientation. I found out about other new employees coming in as well. Most of them with less experience then me are coming into higher positions than I was not qualify for. Somehow they were qualify but I wasn't. During the orientation, some of the new employees were blown away with my experience, they didn't understand how they ended up get a higher position and I didn't.
Right there, I realize I gave people too much control over my life. I need to stop letting people control my destiny. If I want something, I have to get it myself and not rely on someone telling me what I should be or what I should do. I told them to keep their job. I gave control back to myself and since that day I haven't given it back.
Now, the road I'm traveling is not easy. It never was. Never will be. I'm not through the woods yet. I'm in the thick of it. But when I die, I know I did it MY WAY. On MY OWN TERMS.
On walking away from jobs that aren't getting you anywhere and where you're underutilized: I did the same. I took a buyout from a job where I could have stayed there for another 10-20 years (in theory) and earning a pretty good paycheck. My job began to go sour about five years ago (really I should have left then) and it got to the point where I wasn't learning anything new, everyone who knew my abilities and expertise had moved on, and I was not going to be given the opportunity to do anything. This hurt because for many years I had been on call 24/7, I hardly ever got to take uninterrupted vacations or even weekends, missed out on opportunities for professional enrichment because I was always in danger of being pulled out of a class for an emergency, and I had been ahead of the curve on everything, and helped create a lot of stuff for my company that they're still relying on today. I mean, I was proud of my work.
I can understand what the OP and others are saying about not wanting to stay in a job that you feel is not using you to the best of your ability. Going in day after day in that kind of environment becomes toxic to you. Nothing is worse than sitting in your own misery, having to be around the same people every day who don't value you professionally.
This is not to say "poor me" because... I moved on. I'm now unemployed and job-hunting. It's hard to explain to people why I had to leave (I did not have time to get another job before the cutoff date for the buyout, but I certainly did get moving on the job search right away while I was still there). I just didn't have faith in the company any more and knew I had to leave before the toxic feelings killed me.
HOWEVER, while at my old company I felt I had earned the right to be treated better, out here it's a whole new ball game. Nobody owes me a thing. I hope they look at my resume and see all my skills and experience, but I'm not going to feel insulted by a job offer. Mainly because my past work history was all about rising above my official role and people shoving weird new assignments on my lap (things that nobody knew how to do) and making it work. I'm starting over. (Trying not to repeat history: if a new job turns into a 24/7 chaosfest, rest assured I will be looking for a new position, because I'm not interested in being a loyal doormat any more.)
My only criteria for whether a job is worth it to me or not, is not the title or even the pay (within reason), it's a complex formula of amount of pay, versus what valuable skills I might learn, versus time investment. That is not likely to be a convenience store job, but under odd circumstances, it might be.
Last edited by Jeromeville; 12-14-2015 at 06:04 PM..
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