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Old 12-31-2015, 10:50 PM
 
2,183 posts, read 1,729,154 times
Reputation: 1833

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnomatic View Post
I worked at some of the biggest tech companies (100K to 40 K employees world wide). They don't usually "lock out" someone unless they don't meet the company's minimum requirements. There are candidates who didn't get a particular role they applied for, but were still considered for other roles in the company. Hiring manager have access to this pool of candidates in an internal database.

And these are companies that have tens of thousands of applications a month (if not a week), it's a waste of time to parse through every candidate that has already been reviewed and not deemed qualify based on the skills, and/or a cultural fit for the company. And to be really honest, most external hires (exception being new grad hires, which goes through a different hiring process) were not from people who applied, it's people who were recruited (i.e company recruiters approached THEM), or an internal referrals.

External candidate don't see why (and at what stage) they didn't meet the criteria. They just know they will not be moving along in the hiring process. It's not like they are banned FOREVER from applying, 6 months is a good amount of time to improve one's skills set and interview skills to improve their chances, if one is so set on working for a particular company.
It's just another six months without income. But what do you care right? I guarantee you don't give a damn about anyone but yourself. You hr/hm types are all the same like that.
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Old 01-01-2016, 02:12 AM
 
852 posts, read 1,558,545 times
Reputation: 1125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jma501 View Post
It's just another six months without income. But what do you care right? I guarantee you don't give a damn about anyone but yourself. You hr/hm types are all the same like that.
There is more then one employer in the world, if you got rejected at one, apply to another. No one is keeping you from an income except yourself.

Do you even know what a hiring manager is?
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Old 01-01-2016, 03:47 AM
 
2,183 posts, read 1,729,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnomatic View Post
There is more then one employer in the world, if you got rejected at one, apply to another. No one is keeping you from an income except yourself.

Do you even know what a hiring manager is?
Yes I do know.

There is more than one employer in the world but all hr/hm types play the same ludicrous games that keep good people from employment.
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Old 01-01-2016, 11:45 AM
 
852 posts, read 1,558,545 times
Reputation: 1125
Quote:
Originally Posted by jma501 View Post
Yes I do know.

There is more than one employer in the world but all hr/hm types play the same ludicrous games that keep good people from employment.
So the world is only populated by bad employed people?

Really? Because the reason I am the HIRING manager is because I have a position on my team I need filled. Else I am just a manager. I don't have the time to interview every unqualify applicant, so there is no "game". If they have the right skills they will get an offer. If hired they will report to me, and I (along with my team) have to work with them everyday. So who else do you propose conduct the hiring?

No good manager is going to hire an unqualify person just because they applied and need a job (at least in my industry), as that would just drag down productivity for the team.

With your attitude toward hiring managers, its clear you you will have problem working for anyone. I hope you are making great strides toward self employment.
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:52 PM
 
2,183 posts, read 1,729,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnomatic View Post
So the world is only populated by bad employed people?

Really? Because the reason I am the HIRING manager is because I have a position on my team I need filled. Else I am just a manager. I don't have the time to interview every unqualify applicant, so there is no "game". If they have the right skills they will get an offer. If hired they will report to me, and I (along with my team) have to work with them everyday. So who else do you propose conduct the hiring?

No good manager is going to hire an unqualify person just because they applied and need a job (at least in my industry), as that would just drag down productivity for the team.

With your attitude toward hiring managers, its clear you you will have problem working for anyone. I hope you are making great strides toward self employment.
I didn't say anything about unqualified applicants. Many people have skills that cross over into different fields unfortunately hr/hm can't think out of the box to see anything other than what they deem a perfect fit. I have been a property manager for 16 years and it entails many skills that cross into other fields so I apply to them as well but hr/hm are completely clueless when it comes to this.

As for my attitude I work just fine with others. All the positions I have had I met with the owner for an interview and got hired. Now with the advent of the unnecessary positions of hr/hm and all their associated incompetence games, not so much. There is absolutely no excuse for it. I know where the blame squarely lies.
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Old 01-01-2016, 02:00 PM
 
852 posts, read 1,558,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jma501 View Post
I didn't say anything about unqualified applicants. Many people have skills that cross over into different fields unfortunately hr/hm can't think out of the box to see anything other than what they deem a perfect fit. I have been a property manager for 16 years and it entails many skills that cross into other fields so I apply to them as well but hr/hm are completely clueless when it comes to this.

As for my attitude I work just fine with others. All the positions I have had I met with the owner for an interview and got hired. Now with the advent of the unnecessary positions of hr/hm and all their associated incompetence games, not so much. There is absolutely no excuse for it. I know where the blame squarely lies.
How old are you that the concept of a hiring manager is "new"?

Hiring Managers is the person the candidate will ultimately report to. That how it works for my industry, the same one the OP wants a job in. My hiring manager is the CTO. When I interviewed, I interviewed with him and people who will be my peers (other engineering managers and senior engineers). As the hiring manager, I know what skills can cross over and what can not. I also know what skills can be taught, and which applicant are more likely to be able adapt to our technology stack to get up to speed an be productive.
HR merely handle the administrative side, they don't make the decision to hire. They help me filter out candidates base on criteria I provide them.

Do you propose the "owner" of a multi-billion tech company personally meet and hire every one of their 40K+ employees? The "owner" knows exactly each and every role's skillset? From accountant, to engineers, to customer support, marketing, PR, to office managers?Who exactly is the "owner"? The CEO? Head of the board? Every single shareholder?
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Old 01-01-2016, 02:12 PM
 
2,077 posts, read 1,854,218 times
Reputation: 2677
JM I understand your anger but seriously, there's not much you can do except keep applying, work on your resume and keep improving your chances.

I'm blessed because I'm starting to hear back from companies. Namely, a. I didn't give up and b. I kept it together.

Its an employers market so you have to prove yourself these days.
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Old 01-01-2016, 02:46 PM
 
2,183 posts, read 1,729,154 times
Reputation: 1833
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnomatic View Post
How old are you that the concept of a hiring manager is "new"?

Hiring Managers is the person the candidate will ultimately report to. That how it works for my industry, the same one the OP wants a job in. My hiring manager is the CTO. When I interviewed, I interviewed with him and people who will be my peers (other engineering managers and senior engineers). As the hiring manager, I know what skills can cross over and what can not. I also know what skills can be taught, and which applicant are more likely to be able adapt to our technology stack to get up to speed an be productive.
HR merely handle the administrative side, they don't make the decision to hire. They help me filter out candidates base on criteria I provide them.

Do you propose the "owner" of a multi-billion tech company personally meet and hire every one of their 40K+ employees? The "owner" knows exactly each and every role's skillset? From accountant, to engineers, to customer support, marketing, PR, to office managers?Who exactly is the "owner"? The CEO? Head of the board? Every single shareholder?
When I say owner I mean the actual owner of the management companies I worked for.
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Old 01-01-2016, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,929 posts, read 8,390,690 times
Reputation: 15495
Quote:
Originally Posted by jma501 View Post
When I say owner I mean the actual owner of the management companies I worked for.

Ok. What about my employer? I work for the state. Should the governor hire everybody directly?

You are being completely ridiculous. Managers are employed to hire people. I hire one person for every opening I have available. What is the problem with that?
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Old 01-01-2016, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,929 posts, read 8,390,690 times
Reputation: 15495
Quote:
Originally Posted by jma501 View Post
Hm/hr's job is to hire the best person possible? Don't make me laugh, you people are intellectually incapable of doing so thus you hire the person that can talk a blue streak or sociopathically lie their way through the assessment tests and interview.
Nice. Good to know you can judge entire groups of people based upon their job. I think that the word bigot is applicable here.


Quote:
I am sick and tired of hr/hm arrogant asshats looking down their noses at people applying for any job so they can have an income again. Just who the hell do you people think you are anyway?
I don't look down my nose at people who apply for jobs. At the same time, I post my minimum qualifications and don't consider interviewing people who don't meet them. After filtering for min qual, I may interview the top 3-5 people from the 40+ people who did mean the minimums.

If people who are not qualified for my opening choose to apply, it is simply a waste of their time.

Quote:
Absolutely disgusting. Be proud of yourselves with your arrogance, laziness, incompetence, lying, and reliance on imbecilic assessment tests that prove nothing, you have destroyed the job hunting and hiring processes.
I am not arrogant, lazy or incompetent. I do not lie, nor do I use assessment tests. How have I destroyed job hunting? I have hired many people over the past year, and have interviews scheduled for next week. I will most likely extend an offer to somebody on Friday of next week.


Quote:
Before hr/hm people actually applied for jobs, got hired, and found ways to fit in with their coworkers. It's time all hm/hr were returned to the obscurity from which they came.
Any manager who has ever hired anybody is a hiring manager. That is as true of the 1920s, 1950s, and 1980s as it is today. Hiring is only a small portion of my responsibilities. I run number of departments, and I hire staff to make sure the jobs get done. Get rid of my hiring responsibilities and authority and I will run out of staff to run my departments.

Good plan. That really going to help our economy if I don't have the authority to hire. Nobody else will either.
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