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Old 06-28-2016, 08:07 PM
 
1,822 posts, read 3,786,637 times
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I've been interviewing at several companies (Sr. Manager - Director Level roles). When it comes to offer stage, they are able to give me a decent raise in my base salary. However, when I tell them about my unvested RSUs and bonus I'm expecting in the fall at my current employer (total about $100k), this seems to scare them off. They honestly seem surprised I'd even ask for them to make me whole and they haven't budgeted for this.


I'm a bit perplexed here. I'd assumed that at this level, it would be standard practice to include a large sign-on (cash + RSUs) to compensate for what I'm leaving on the table. But, this has happened to me 3-4 times lately and has caused me to turn down offers. What am I missing? BTW, the companies I've been interviewing at are not Google, Facebook, Apple, etc. or hot start ups, but companies in technology or financial services.
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Old 06-28-2016, 10:47 PM
 
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I think the bonus is reasonable, but not the unvested stock. Companies typically offer restricted stock compensation that vests over time to keep you at the company. The fact that you're leaving your current company before that stock vests is not the problem of the new company, and a quick poll of my personal contacts seem to agree. You need to decide whether to stay until the stock vests or walk away from it. Include the value of the unvested shares that you received annually as part of your base compensation ("I received a base of X plus an annual bonus of Y and restricted stock of Z last year, for a total annual salary of $$"). And I certainly would try to negotiate some additional equity method compensation at the new company, but I would not expect for them to make you whole on the value of unvested stock that you're walking away from.
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Old 06-29-2016, 08:50 AM
 
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i agree with MLM- it's not common to be paid for unvested stock.. Are the companies offering stock of their own? I've been made whole on bonuses in this situation; i always get it in writing as a guaranteed percentage of income or a flat amount. good luck!
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Old 06-29-2016, 09:18 AM
 
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The advice you've received this far is correct and I will add from my experience. I was on the other end of this several times as I worked corporate finance at one of the largest public insurers for years. These companies are telling you the truth and why they can't compensate you. The reason they can't compensate you more is that their budgets are already fixed. Meaning a manager is going to be evaluated based on numbers that are already in place. By bringing on new staff they are running the risk of exceeding his budget and potentially limiting their own bonus and next year's merit increase--not just for him/her but his whole team.

My advice to you would be to find out when their fiscal year starts. Then negotiate your all in salary approach. That way these division leaders can argue why their budgets for the next fiscal year deserves XYZ expense increase. You are coming into this process mid-stream and they know by adding all this excess expense they are potentially limiting how much they can spend on already in process or planned projects.

In addition, if they receive bonus pay based on ROI metrics (or even residual income) by bringing you on mid-stream you instantly lower their performance levels.

You have a far better chance of getting what you are asking for if you enter this process early in their financial planning process or at least at a point where they can still increase their next year expense plan.

MLM also laid out why your expectation of compensation based on unvested stock options is irrelevant. You are essentially asking them to buy this stock freely in the market and then give it to you. If I was hiring you I would question why you are leaving the company if this unvested stock had such financial potential. They are interested in investing in you, not your current employer.

You have leverage for negotiation. I would wager your timing is off and the managers are questioning whether you are really interested in their business or if you too will simply jump ship a few years in. Turnover at this level is outrageously expensive. Take a step back and put yourself in that manager's position and then you will better understand what the prior three have indirectly been telling you.

Find out when their fiscal year starts and plan your negotiation around that date. I guarantee you will get your best offer in that period.
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Old 06-29-2016, 02:26 PM
 
1,822 posts, read 3,786,637 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abvincent1 View Post
The advice you've received this far is correct and I will add from my experience. I was on the other end of this several times as I worked corporate finance at one of the largest public insurers for years. These companies are telling you the truth and why they can't compensate you. The reason they can't compensate you more is that their budgets are already fixed. Meaning a manager is going to be evaluated based on numbers that are already in place. By bringing on new staff they are running the risk of exceeding his budget and potentially limiting their own bonus and next year's merit increase--not just for him/her but his whole team.
I hear you on managers not wanting to exceed their budget. I don't question this, but I question why are they not thinking stock/bonus as part of the budget in the first place? Its not like I'm interviewing for entry level positions and I don't feel that my expectations are abnormal for my level. Do they believe that the job market is still so poor that some desperate/unemployed ******* will just accept their first offer without these types of expectations?
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Old 06-29-2016, 03:33 PM
 
1,378 posts, read 1,340,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior101 View Post
I hear you on managers not wanting to exceed their budget. I don't question this, but I question why are they not thinking stock/bonus as part of the budget in the first place? Its not like I'm interviewing for entry level positions and I don't feel that my expectations are abnormal for my level. Do they believe that the job market is still so poor that some desperate/unemployed ******* will just accept their first offer without these types of expectations?
then why not wait until the fall after your payout? That's when most at this level would be looking - unless the prospective employers were willing to payout what you're asking and it sounds like they are not. It's up to you - but if it's that important to you then you should just wait and continue your search later.
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