U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment > Job Search
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-13-2016, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Planet Telex
4,648 posts, read 2,287,789 times
Reputation: 4376

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
Absolutely correct. If you have 5 candidates with about equal education and experience, you have to find the one that will fit in the best with the existing crew. These questions are to find, how they think and react, when a problem comes along. Some very bright, educated, and experienced people kind of shut down when something happens that needs them to react or call the right person to handle the problem. The way that these people can handle questions they are not expecting, gives you your only opportunity to learn how they think, how fast they think, and how they react when something is thrown at them they are not expecting. It gives you an idea, how they will react if they are suddenly faced with a problem they are working on. There will very often be no right or wrong answer, but how the applicant handles stress. Something that you need to know to select the best of the 5 qualified candidates.
Fair enough, but what about the smooth talker who can BS his way to the job offer but in the end can't actually do the job effectively? How did the behavioral questions actually prevent the company from making the wrong hire when all it did was essentially reward the applicant by showcasing the bad hire's rhetorical skills?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-13-2016, 03:24 PM
 
1,374 posts, read 1,333,709 times
Reputation: 1201
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandsthetime View Post
Do you feel behavioral based interviewing techniques are a proven and effective way of assessing a candidate's skills, experience, and ability to be successful in a particular position or role with the company? Do the strengths outweigh the weaknesses when it comes to performing this type of interview procedure?
what is your suggested alternative? Go back to the "trust your guys" style of interviewing? That doesn't work either..

If you're a good employee and actually know your business you won't have any problem with behavioral based interviewing as it will force every interviewee to not just "talk the talk" but actually prove through legitimate specific examples what was achieved.

While i find this interview type annoying; it actually is fairly helpful if the questions are right for the position.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2016, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Pittsford, NY
517 posts, read 624,399 times
Reputation: 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaypee View Post
I'm "going on" about it because I don't know what the heck you're saying about interviewing a technical candidate. You say not to ask them technical questions nor behavioral questions so that doesn't leave anyone with much.

It's uncommon to interview someone to find out where their experience "fits" in the company. It is more typical that you need a candidate to fulfil a very specific job that has specific requirements.
If what you mean by a technical question is something taken from some textbook of general ideas, yes I mean that.

If what you mean is what they do, tools they use, models they applied at work including theory, but importantly listed on the resume no I did not say to avoid that. In fact I exactly say to talk about specific experience on their resumes, so yes that is technical but it is also personal and actually directed and NOT general. Unless their resume is about general psychology is what you mean.

My point is clear and to the exact point.

Boo_urns said the same thing as well, he was obviously in a similar setting as I have been. When we have been involved in hiring you go right for projects listed on the resume to see the work that translates, not generalities done to eliminate candidates. My stance is "candidate lets find where we can work because I want to hire you". We go into the resume and go over those things like I mention and since you apparently didn't read here are examples again: "1) I see you interfaced with a keysight/agilent 45xxa, did you use the packaged templates or you wrote a SCPI version? Did you try the HP/Agilent versions or just the Keysight/Agilent ones? 2) The integrating camera you used to acquire the biomedical densitometry data, did you set the integrating time with the software you wrote? Did you work off an external acquisition window or you wrote a whole software set for that? Was the light incident/reflected or transmitted? What kind of light level? Was the sensor cooled or noise reduced somehow?"

Those are technical clearly. But these are examples of asking some things based on THEIR RESUME. The question differs if they had something else on their resume. Those are two widely differing examples of highly technical question but aimed at somebody having these things on the resume. So guiding them in, not eliminating technical experts.

Again the psychology and behavior stuff is just arbitrary elimination methodology. Open end talk about behavioral characteristics, using technical textbook tests rather than work, or psychology quizzes, or just a too wide and obviously not directed general question about the "toughest problem solved" are exactly arbitrary elimination methodologies. Arbitrary elimination is like a big bureaucratic organization saying "we don't care about candidates, we don't care about the work that is needed to be done, we just need to eliminate and eliminate and eliminate. We need arbitrary metrics to do this elimination for us". That is not nice. I am not sure if what you are saying is hiring is just nasty so you like that nastiness, or what are you saying?

Last edited by TestEngr; 07-13-2016 at 03:54 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2016, 07:14 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
13,343 posts, read 17,395,875 times
Reputation: 19654
Quote:
Originally Posted by TestEngr View Post
If what you mean by a technical question is something taken from some textbook of general ideas, yes I mean that.

If what you mean is what they do, tools they use, models they applied at work including theory, but importantly listed on the resume no I did not say to avoid that. In fact I exactly say to talk about specific experience on their resumes, so yes that is technical but it is also personal and actually directed and NOT general. Unless their resume is about general psychology is what you mean.

My point is clear and to the exact point.

Boo_urns said the same thing as well, he was obviously in a similar setting as I have been. When we have been involved in hiring you go right for projects listed on the resume to see the work that translates, not generalities done to eliminate candidates. My stance is "candidate lets find where we can work because I want to hire you". We go into the resume and go over those things like I mention and since you apparently didn't read here are examples again: "1) I see you interfaced with a keysight/agilent 45xxa, did you use the packaged templates or you wrote a SCPI version? Did you try the HP/Agilent versions or just the Keysight/Agilent ones? 2) The integrating camera you used to acquire the biomedical densitometry data, did you set the integrating time with the software you wrote? Did you work off an external acquisition window or you wrote a whole software set for that? Was the light incident/reflected or transmitted? What kind of light level? Was the sensor cooled or noise reduced somehow?"

Those are technical clearly. But these are examples of asking some things based on THEIR RESUME. The question differs if they had something else on their resume. Those are two widely differing examples of highly technical question but aimed at somebody having these things on the resume. So guiding them in, not eliminating technical experts.
Who said anything about asking technical questions out of a textbook? The context is obviously about interviewing candidates on their knowledge/experience/skills that is applicable to the job requirements.

The OP is about whether behavioral interview questions is effective but then you went and said "I definitely don't think you should quiz technical candidates on technical matters" when all your questions are very technical in nature.

You can still ask behavioral-like questions to tie in technical issues:

"What did you have the most difficulty with in working with the HP/Agilent versions? So ... what did you do? What were the results/outcomes?"
"When you wrote the software to integrate the densitometry data, what was your biggest challenge? how did you solve it? "
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-13-2016, 07:44 PM
 
3,961 posts, read 1,690,813 times
Reputation: 8051
I agree that the generic behavioral interview questions are awful, but the key to an interview is both to figure out whether a person has the skills needed to do the job (which you can't get from the generic behavioral questions alone) and whether the person is going to be a fit for the team/organization (which you may not be able to figure out without at least some behavioral questions.)

That said, there are probably some behavioral interview questions that are relevant and will likely be used in most interviews in a given field. There are several I get almost every time because they can pull in my experience from the resume and see if I will be a good fit within the organization. The "Tell me about your most difficult experience with X..." can provide a lot of insight into your experience with whatever X is, be it a programming language, working in a classroom setting, working with clients, etc. I had one manager who made up his own behavioral question that seemed like a random getting-to-know you question, but he was dead set on this question being asked as he felt like the answer revealed a lot about whether the person would be a good fit. For my type of position, it was pretty effective and interesting to find out how my coworkers answered The Question.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2016, 04:48 AM
 
Location: Pittsford, NY
517 posts, read 624,399 times
Reputation: 578
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaypee View Post

You can still ask behavioral-like questions to tie in technical issues

"
Jaypee, I actually don't think you really read things I wrote. I am glad you like "behavior" so much and it has served you well. Good luck with that. I don't think it has a place in employment to eliminate people and sounds highly bureaucratic is substance to me . As to textbook tests, companies are doing that first thing at interviews now at least some of them anyway. Probably not as big a place as where you must work (from the sounds of what I hear). Good luck applying behavioral analysis to everything and everyone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2016, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
8,792 posts, read 13,277,872 times
Reputation: 15919
Quote:
Originally Posted by jribe View Post
If you're a good employee and actually know your business you won't have any problem with behavioral based interviewing as it will force every interviewee to not just "talk the talk" but actually prove through legitimate specific examples what was achieved.
Behavioral interviewing is about psychobabble, telling BS stories, and most of the questions have little to do with the ability to actually perform the job. It is not at all surprising that many of the best technical employees will have issues with this fine piece of HR garbage. The quoted statement is just nonsensical. Other than technical questions most interviews are all about talking the talk. Walking the walk can only come from technical questions, qualifications, and a probationary period after an offer.

The thing that hiring manager can't seem to grasp is that an interview is probably the worst means of selecting the best talent. You can tell if they can comport them-self as a professional and perhaps get a slight glimpse of the personality (but given the high stress and faking that goes on that is dubious as well) and that is about it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2016, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
12,161 posts, read 10,339,034 times
Reputation: 33141
Pros: I can make stuff up which isn't easily verifiable.

Cons: I can make stuff up which isn't easily verifiable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2016, 04:17 AM
 
285 posts, read 268,679 times
Reputation: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by TestEngr View Post
Jaypee, I actually don't think you really read things I wrote. I am glad you like "behavior" so much and it has served you well. Good luck with that. I don't think it has a place in employment to eliminate people and sounds highly bureaucratic is substance to me . As to textbook tests, companies are doing that first thing at interviews now at least some of them anyway. Probably not as big a place as where you must work (from the sounds of what I hear). Good luck applying behavioral analysis to everything and everyone.
Agree with this. When looking for a candidate, I do care about non-technical "soft-skills" like motivation, demeanor, etc. I just think canned behavioral questions are a really bad way to learn about those skills.


And as a side note, HP / Agilent stuff (haven't used any "Keysight" stuff yet, although I've been in the demo truck) is the best in the world
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2016, 05:07 PM
 
6,838 posts, read 3,710,891 times
Reputation: 18078
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamenAddict View Post
...The "Tell me about your most difficult experience with X..." can provide a lot of insight into your experience with whatever X is, be it a programming language, working in a classroom setting, working with clients, etc....


The problem is, this kind of question provides no insight into experience or anything else. All it provides insight into is how well the person can BS the answer. I mean, what do you expect them to say:


A. "My most difficult experience with X was I didn't know how to program the fram-a-stan valve and had to get Joe to do it after causing a week delay in the project."


OR


B. "My most difficult experience with X was when I discovered the fram-a-stan valve didn't properly interface with the doohickey software so I quickly formed a team and led the problem resolution effort to minimize impact to the thing-a-ma-*** project.


So you hire "B" while overlooking the person who never had the problem in the first place, but got stuck on how to describe a problem they never had.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment > Job Search
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top