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Old 08-07-2016, 06:04 AM
 
3,460 posts, read 2,210,194 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_grimace View Post
See title... Is it possible? I always seem to have a lot of luck making it final round interviews but I have terrible difficulty actually securing offers. I always try to seek out feedback because I want to know where I could improve, (especially when I feel I aced the interview), but most companies are very adamant about only providing a standard rejection or providing some "safe" and generic reason because these companies are afraid of a having a lawsuit on hand.

The one I get the most now is just simply the "You are an excellent candidate but we found someone better suited for the role". Umm, if I'm so excellent where should I be improving??! I just really wish companies would provide feedback so I could actually work on weak areas if they exist!

Any tips for digging the real answer why you weren't hired out of the company?
There really is no value in the feedback to begin with because often it is about things you don't have any control over. Also, the actual reasons might not be something they want to discuss such as something as stupid as you didn't like the same sports team as one of the people on the interview team. Or you reminded one of them of someone they didn't like in high school. None of these things are useful to you.

More professionally, it might be other things you can't change such as where you got your degree or why you didn't advance more or stay longer in a recent job. None of these things you can do anything about, and to be very honest they are just one person's opinion not a blanket statement on your value as an employee.

So they don't want to get involved in telling you the reasons, because often times they don't even know themselves or want to admit them.

When I have heard from people who did get feedback why they weren't hired, it just made them more upset such as "we were looking for someone with database experience" when that applicant was at the expert level with years of experience doing just that. What I'm trying to say, is that just because you didn't get an offer it doesn't mean their opinion has any real value. Companies don't make a habit of training people how to evaluate and interview people for a job. I've been at meetings when people look through resumes and make the most stupid comments about what is there at a glance and toss it in the reject pile.

In some positions you interview for, it is public if they hired someone for the position. In those cases, it isn't surprising to find out they didn't hire anyone and that can be because of internal decisions with the company, again, these had nothing to do with you.

All anyone can do, is your best on your resume, interview skills and continue to put yourself out there.
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Old 08-07-2016, 06:36 AM
 
3,460 posts, read 2,210,194 times
Reputation: 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickchick View Post
It doesn't do me any good to hear a generic answer. If more employers were honest, I could persuade them why whatever their concern was that it wouldn't be a problem but if I don't know how can I prove to them that I would be a good candidate
This is one of the reasons they don't want to tell you, because they've already made a choice and they aren't interested in hearing what you have to say. If their job description says you need to have 5+ years experience as a Linux Administrator in a fast-paced environment, and you only have 6 months as a staffer in a slow-paced environment in academia, they don't want to hear your arguments that you can do the job just as good or better of someone that matches their requirements. It isn't like after they inform you and say why, that you are going to come back to them with a reply, and they will rescind the offer to the other person and hire you instead.

If they looked at each person who applied, and got back to them with a document saying their deficiencies with ample time to respond to consider your reply it would take literally years to fill any position. And at the end of the day, they made a call and could be 100% wrong in their choice, but it is still their call.

The second you apply for a job, immediately begin searching for the next one to apply for. Don't sit by your e-mail or phone waiting to hear because it just creates unnecessary stress.
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Old 08-07-2016, 09:33 AM
 
3,460 posts, read 2,210,194 times
Reputation: 6133
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.frog View Post
About 15-20 years ago now, a potential employer accidentally CC'ed me on internal e-mail after I'd done a phone interview with them. It was clearly *not* intended to be sent to me so there was no effort to disguise it with polite apologies. What the interviewer's comments boiled down to was -- you guessed it -- they didn't think I was going to be a good fit for the job. It did make me angry, though, because the specific reason they picked on was something that had never even come up in the interview, and you'd think that if they considered it a deal-killer they would have at least asked me about it directly. But what can you do about it? They've already made up their minds, they have no obligation to make you an offer, and it was their loss that they jumped to the wrong conclusions about what was going to make me happy.

I also had the experience of going through a first round of interviews at a certain company and being told someone would be contacting me shortly afterwards for a second round.... and weeks went by, they kept telling me this guy was just extremely busy, etc... and finally I was told that there had been a reorganization and the position I'd interviewed for had disappeared. The funny thing is that some years later, long after I'd found a job at another company, the would-be second interviewer remembered that too and apologized for having dragged his feet on hiring me. :-P
Having that information still might not tell you the truth. Meaning that someone considered you a threat to their job and importance there and decided to say something negative against you.

None of this feedback is going to be useful either if leaked to you or told to you directly. I think people are placing too much importance on what the feedback would be, as if it were the ultimate telling statement about a person. Even if what they said were 100% true for one job in that company with those team of people, it doesn't mean it applies anyplace else or at another time.

More productive time is spent networking to meet people who can help you than worrying about what the feedback was.
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Old 08-07-2016, 09:46 AM
 
3,460 posts, read 2,210,194 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcq View Post
If you dedicated considerable time to interviews, or even perhaps took days off of work, then yes, it might. I don't know about you, but I consider my time valuable. While I don't expect it or care as much as others, I've always been curious as to how often the reasons are legit like "We were looking for more experience in x" or "We decided to hire internally". Then of course, there are reasons where being honest would probably get them into trouble, deserved or not.
Your time isn't the issue. You invite people to come to your home to give free estimates all the time and the majority of the time they don't get the work for reasons that have nothing to do with them. Everyone is told to get at least three estimates, so someone is not going to get the job and the reasons for the home owner aren't going to be useful to those who didn't get the job if it is something they can't change. And what you can change for one might shut you out from consideration to just about everyone else. You can't go through life second guessing things all the time and try to make major changes at the whim of others.

The majority of companies are not so well run and well ordered so that feedback is going to be of anything useful to apply to a future situation.
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Old 08-07-2016, 10:11 AM
 
598 posts, read 700,942 times
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I did get one helpful piece of post-interview feedback, years ago when I was quite young.... I was told I didn't seem to be sufficiently enthusiastic about the job, but I wasn't really indifferent, just shy and nervous. I was confident in my job skills, but I realized I had to improve my interviewing skills, too.
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Old 08-07-2016, 10:53 PM
 
6,364 posts, read 3,421,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_grimace View Post

The one I get the most now is just simply the "You are an excellent candidate but we found someone better suited for the role". Umm, if I'm so excellent where should I be improving??! I just really wish companies would provide feedback so I could actually work on weak areas if they exist!
DD applied for a job and got the standard Email .... Your resume was very impressive but we decided to go with another candidiate.

Thing was, she never actually sent them a resume, just did an online application.
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Old 08-08-2016, 06:37 AM
 
Location: HoCo, MD
4,361 posts, read 8,013,707 times
Reputation: 4786
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_grimace View Post
See title... Is it possible? I always seem to have a lot of luck making it final round interviews but I have terrible difficulty actually securing offers. I always try to seek out feedback because I want to know where I could improve, (especially when I feel I aced the interview), but most companies are very adamant about only providing a standard rejection or providing some "safe" and generic reason because these companies are afraid of a having a lawsuit on hand.

The one I get the most now is just simply the "You are an excellent candidate but we found someone better suited for the role". Umm, if I'm so excellent where should I be improving??! I just really wish companies would provide feedback so I could actually work on weak areas if they exist!

Any tips for digging the real answer why you weren't hired out of the company?
If you're getting that far each time. Then I'm not sure their answer would really help. From their perspective, they picked the candidate they liked the best. So in essence, they simply liked someone more (as opposed you doing something wrong). And why that is the case could differ from situation to situation. And some can be the result of intentional or unintentional bias.

In the end, I think this is one of those "keep at it" type of things.
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Old 08-08-2016, 08:51 AM
 
598 posts, read 700,942 times
Reputation: 963
Do people ever do informational interviews any more, where the point is to gather information rather than to try to sell yourself for a specific job? If you are getting the feeling that employers in your field are looking for something that you don't have, that might be a good way to find out whether specific training certification is an effective requirement, whether you need to add more current buzzwords to your resume, or whether the whole market for people in your specialty is declining. It also lets you network with people who might be hiring in the future, or know of openings.
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Old 08-08-2016, 12:01 PM
 
429 posts, read 297,315 times
Reputation: 809
Nobody gives informational interviews, unless there is some connection already. Maybe if the interviewer knows a family member or close friend of yours. But off the bat, nobody does. They don't have the time. Every time they speak to somebody "curious about the field" they lose money. I haven't heard of "informational interviews" for at least 15 years. It's an antiquated concept.Just like cover letters, thank you notes, and hard cotton fancy resume paper. 1950s.
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Old 08-08-2016, 11:07 PM
 
3,320 posts, read 1,886,402 times
Reputation: 1857
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastcoastguyz View Post
This is one of the reasons they don't want to tell you, because they've already made a choice and they aren't interested in hearing what you have to say. If their job description says you need to have 5+ years experience as a Linux Administrator in a fast-paced environment, and you only have 6 months as a staffer in a slow-paced environment in academia, they don't want to hear your arguments that you can do the job just as good or better of someone that matches their requirements. It isn't like after they inform you and say why, that you are going to come back to them with a reply, and they will rescind the offer to the other person and hire you instead.

If they looked at each person who applied, and got back to them with a document saying their deficiencies with ample time to respond to consider your reply it would take literally years to fill any position. And at the end of the day, they made a call and could be 100% wrong in their choice, but it is still their call.

The second you apply for a job, immediately begin searching for the next one to apply for. Don't sit by your e-mail or phone waiting to hear because it just creates unnecessary stress.

But they don't even always tell you DURING the interview either. Usually if they say they have concerns about lack of experience, they will tack on that they can train me so it must not be that much of an issue. Worse yet if I don't even get an interview they won't let me persuade them because it's usually due to failing their stupid test and they won't tell me where exactly I failed.
How am I supposed to persuade them I am the best for the job if they don't tell me what's exactly wrong with me in their eyes?

So it's okay for them to not have to take so much time on the hiring process when I as a lowly applicant can take years to find work? Just because they make "real" money their time is more valuable than mine? I'm already far behind the world. If I don't get hired soon I won't have much working years ahead.

I get tired of looking because it's always the same crap so there's rarely more than one job to wait for. I only apply for entry level jobs yet they don't want to even let me persuade them for a job that's supposed to be entry level.
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