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Old 11-28-2018, 01:28 AM
 
2,075 posts, read 602,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krmb View Post
I thought non-renewal was equivalent to being fired, not getting laid off. They even ask about it during teaching interviews. I got the idea it was an automatic red flag. Besides, it's not like I quit in the middle of the year or anything. I just resigned after that year. I would think that would be about the same, since people resign from work for various reasons.
Bob in teaching it is different. This may have been the right thing for him to quit. I have heard this too about non-renewals being viewed more in a negative light. But since I would not recommend you return to teaching except in dire circumstances (and preferably as a tutor) it may be a moot point. If he ever wanted to teach again having a non-renewal could be a red flag saying that he politically will not comply and is not a kool-aid drinker. Given the teacher shortage it will probably be looked at worse than quitting. For quitting he can always say it was a dysfunctional district or something like that.
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Old 11-28-2018, 04:31 AM
 
4,367 posts, read 3,553,961 times
Reputation: 2926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencent View Post
Bob in teaching it is different. This may have been the right thing for him to quit. I have heard this too about non-renewals being viewed more in a negative light. But since I would not recommend you return to teaching except in dire circumstances (and preferably as a tutor) it may be a moot point. If he ever wanted to teach again having a non-renewal could be a red flag saying that he politically will not comply and is not a kool-aid drinker. Given the teacher shortage it will probably be looked at worse than quitting. For quitting he can always say it was a dysfunctional district or something like that.
Well, the problem was I just couldn't keep up. The school where I was teaching expected me to write my own curriculum, and I don't have experience or training for that! I wanted to learn. I expressed eagerness to learn even though I didn't have the training. The attitude expressed was more or less "but you have a master's degree; you should already know how to do this." I explained that I had no experience in curriculum planning and really thought I was missing something, but no one really listened to me or understood what the problem was.

Close to the end of the year, I figured out what they were expecting me to do. I'm at a loss and kind of wonder why I can't file a lawsuit for receiving almost no support. No, though, the argument would probably something along the lines of "but you never told us that you needed help with that." What's really frustrating is this would have been a good job placement had the support been there for me! (The reason I'm blaming ASD is how else could I have not clearly communicated the problems I was having? I have trouble mixing up polite and formal, and sometimes I do things that are perceived as polite "one-off" comments when I'm actually trying to express a problem.

Example:

coworker: how was your day?

me: not so good

coworker: I'm sure it will get better! [turns and leaves without offering further help]

me: I hope so [understanding now that she was just being polite]

coworker: you can always ask us for help if you need anything!

me [reading that as general politeness, not an actual offer to help] okay, thanks. [smiling weakly and turning back to the task at hand] I find out later that was an actual offer to help and now she feels like I rejected her help and is refusing to answer me when I ask for further advice.

coworker: I like this book on classroom management; it had some really helpful tips!

me: [not sure if she wants me to read the book because she thinks my classroom management is bad or if she's just making small talk...] um...okay? [I make a note to borrow the book from a local library or order it on Amazon.] I find out later she was just making small talk and wanted to use the book as an excuse to have me visit her classroom! (how was I supposed to guess that?)

Chances are I wouldn't win a legal case for these misunderstandings, even though they happen often enough to impede my normal functioning on the job. How am I supposed to learn from someone who is supposed to be training me if I frequently misinterpret their intentions, for example?

For that matter, with the level of "politeness" some of my employers have shown, how am I even supposed to know IF someone is supposed to be training me!

me: [ask boss for clearer instructions and better support]

boss: [puts someone in the classroom to "help" me teach my classes. ]

me: [afraid to speak to the person who is supposed to be "training" me and not sure how to interact with her] so...what do you want me to do?

person-who-is-supposed-to-be-training-me: oh, it's your classroom; I'm just here to help!

me: [terrified] um, could you take the lead and just let me watch? [freaked out by how easily she navigates the classroom and realizing all of the stuff I want to know how to do are questions she can't answer--I'm horrible at learning things just by watching other people but I didn't want to offend her], so I keep my mouth shut and pretend to not be interested after asking the same question a few times and not getting a proper response])

Last edited by krmb; 11-28-2018 at 05:16 AM..
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Old 11-28-2018, 06:28 PM
 
2,451 posts, read 697,327 times
Reputation: 3428
Quote:
Originally Posted by krmb View Post
I thought non-renewal was equivalent to being fired, not getting laid off. They even ask about it during teaching interviews. I got the idea it was an automatic red flag.
As I mentioned before, employers discriminate against those who are out of work, that's the red flag. If you are non-renewed, that just means they laid you off through attrition. It is not a judgment against you or your performance, they simply didn't have money to keep you on. Or maybe the principal's drinking buddy needed a job.

Laid off is better than quit which is better than fired.
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Old 11-28-2018, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Dallas TX
15,028 posts, read 21,753,522 times
Reputation: 22227
Krmb you need to find a job that gives you very clear and exact instructions. Teaching was not it, there is a lot of ambiguity and a lot of learning on your own. Somethings are just innate. You clearly couldn’t pick it up, and can’t pick up on social cues.

Look for a career that provides you specific direction. I think you’ll be a lot happier and much more successful.
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Old 11-28-2018, 11:16 PM
 
114 posts, read 56,120 times
Reputation: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by krmb View Post
Chances are I wouldn't win a legal case for these misunderstandings, even though they happen often enough to impede my normal functioning on the job. How am I supposed to learn from someone who is supposed to be training me if I frequently misinterpret their intentions, for example?

There's not a legal claim under Texas law for underperforming in a job due to a lack of training or bad management. You admit you were offered help but at the time did not understand the offer and did not clearly communicate your own needs so it sounds like the resolution would be for you and everybody else in the workplace to read each other's mind to know what each other needs and how to satisfy those needs. That's just not practical.

There might be a legal issue involved if you had talked to them about your disability and your need for explicit instructions and talked to them explicitly about what you needed in the way of training. Then the failure to provide explicit instructions or training might be cognizable as a failure to accommodate a disability but again without telling them they cannot be expected to know.

I wouldn't go so far as to say you definitely cannot or should not be a teacher but if you want to teach then you need to learn how to operate in a workplace where you are mostly left to your own management on a daily basis and help from higher up is often not going to be particularly great. Talk to somebody in your local disability agency office as well as reach out to local disability rights groups about how to structure your requests in the workplace for instruction and training and how to approach that conversation. You are undoubtedly not the first teacher they have come across with similar needs.

You may decide teaching is not a great fit for you. You mentioned in another post that you have a masters. There are undoubtedly plenty of other positions in education where you might find a better fit for your needs and enjoy your job more. Think about ways to play up to your strengths rather than constantly fight your challenges.
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Old 11-29-2018, 05:00 AM
 
Location: Dallas TX
15,028 posts, read 21,753,522 times
Reputation: 22227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monacles View Post
There's not a legal claim under Texas law for underperforming in a job due to a lack of training or bad management. You admit you were offered help but at the time did not understand the offer and did not clearly communicate your own needs so it sounds like the resolution would be for you and everybody else in the workplace to read each other's mind to know what each other needs and how to satisfy those needs. That's just not practical.

There might be a legal issue involved if you had talked to them about your disability and your need for explicit instructions and talked to them explicitly about what you needed in the way of training. Then the failure to provide explicit instructions or training might be cognizable as a failure to accommodate a disability but again without telling them they cannot be expected to know.

I wouldn't go so far as to say you definitely cannot or should not be a teacher but if you want to teach then you need to learn how to operate in a workplace where you are mostly left to your own management on a daily basis and help from higher up is often not going to be particularly great. Talk to somebody in your local disability agency office as well as reach out to local disability rights groups about how to structure your requests in the workplace for instruction and training and how to approach that conversation. You are undoubtedly not the first teacher they have come across with similar needs.

You may decide teaching is not a great fit for you. You mentioned in another post that you have a masters. There are undoubtedly plenty of other positions in education where you might find a better fit for your needs and enjoy your job more. Think about ways to play up to your strengths rather than constantly fight your challenges.
Monacles if you read krmbís history, they should not be a teacher.
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Old 11-29-2018, 05:16 AM
 
3,980 posts, read 1,704,754 times
Reputation: 8108
Quote:
Originally Posted by veuvegirl View Post
Monacles if you read krmbís history, they should not be a teacher.
Right, and I wouldnít go so far as to say that there is bad management at the OPís job either. In teaching, you are typically going to be left to your own devices. It is rare that the curriculum is going to be developed for you on a day-to-day basis.

Luckily, a lot of people go into teaching, decide it isnít for them, and find other careers that are better for them. I think half (or even more) that go into teaching leave within 5 years, so the OP is not alone. I donít think it is necessarily going to hurt her in the long run if she looks for a new career. I was a teacher and have a new career now. I also worked with others who had been in teaching and had also found new careers.

Hopefully vocational rehabilitation will be helpful. OP, keep in mind that it is still around a holiday and people might have been off or catching up on the backlog. Donít panic. It is a state agency and the workers will have larger caseloads, but they likely do want to help you. It is not going to be instant though. Hopefully they ca help you find a career where you donít have to figure out social cues as much.
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Old 11-29-2018, 07:38 PM
 
2,075 posts, read 602,953 times
Reputation: 2946
Quote:
Originally Posted by krmb View Post
Well, the problem was I just couldn't keep up. The school where I was teaching expected me to write my own curriculum, and I don't have experience or training for that! I wanted to learn. I expressed eagerness to learn even though I didn't have the training. The attitude expressed was more or less "but you have a master's degree; you should already know how to do this." I explained that I had no experience in curriculum planning and really thought I was missing something, but no one really listened to me or understood what the problem was.

Close to the end of the year, I figured out what they were expecting me to do. I'm at a loss and kind of wonder why I can't file a lawsuit for receiving almost no support. No, though, the argument would probably something along the lines of "but you never told us that you needed help with that." What's really frustrating is this would have been a good job placement had the support been there for me! (The reason I'm blaming ASD is how else could I have not clearly communicated the problems I was having? I have trouble mixing up polite and formal, and sometimes I do things that are perceived as polite "one-off" comments when I'm actually trying to express a problem.

Example:

coworker: how was your day?

me: not so good

coworker: I'm sure it will get better! [turns and leaves without offering further help]

me: I hope so [understanding now that she was just being polite]

coworker: you can always ask us for help if you need anything!

me [reading that as general politeness, not an actual offer to help] okay, thanks. [smiling weakly and turning back to the task at hand] I find out later that was an actual offer to help and now she feels like I rejected her help and is refusing to answer me when I ask for further advice.

coworker: I like this book on classroom management; it had some really helpful tips!

me: [not sure if she wants me to read the book because she thinks my classroom management is bad or if she's just making small talk...] um...okay? [I make a note to borrow the book from a local library or order it on Amazon.] I find out later she was just making small talk and wanted to use the book as an excuse to have me visit her classroom! (how was I supposed to guess that?)

Chances are I wouldn't win a legal case for these misunderstandings, even though they happen often enough to impede my normal functioning on the job. How am I supposed to learn from someone who is supposed to be training me if I frequently misinterpret their intentions, for example?

For that matter, with the level of "politeness" some of my employers have shown, how am I even supposed to know IF someone is supposed to be training me!

me: [ask boss for clearer instructions and better support]

boss: [puts someone in the classroom to "help" me teach my classes. ]

me: [afraid to speak to the person who is supposed to be "training" me and not sure how to interact with her] so...what do you want me to do?

person-who-is-supposed-to-be-training-me: oh, it's your classroom; I'm just here to help!

me: [terrified] um, could you take the lead and just let me watch? [freaked out by how easily she navigates the classroom and realizing all of the stuff I want to know how to do are questions she can't answer--I'm horrible at learning things just by watching other people but I didn't want to offend her], so I keep my mouth shut and pretend to not be interested after asking the same question a few times and not getting a proper response])
I do not interpret that as helping. They sound fake and passive aggressive.
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Old 11-29-2018, 11:34 PM
 
Location: Petaling Jaya
39 posts, read 6,138 times
Reputation: 16
Use the vocational services to help you find you a new job.
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Old 12-01-2018, 06:19 PM
 
4,367 posts, read 3,553,961 times
Reputation: 2926
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelchecks View Post
Use the vocational services to help you find you a new job.
That's what I'm trying now. I registered with them a few weeks before i resigned. That's been almost five months ago. I realize these things take time, but I'm beginning to wonder what is taking so long. I've had offers from other sources to interview, but I don't want another teaching job. I hope I made the right decision by not interviewing for those jobs, even though I will eventually get to the point where I need some form of income, and I don't want to burden friends and family. If it gets to that point, I'll probably just take what I can get, even if it does mean more poor work history and unhappy bosses.

On my old job it all boiled down to I did not know how to use the Texas curriculum planning guide (for that matter, I didn't even know it existed! Like I said, the only thing I had to worry about when student teaching was following the pacing guide; that was a much more detailed skeleton to go by--but I managed to need even more detailed instructions from my cooperating teacher then) I just knew everyone expected more of me than what i was giving them, and nothing was really helping!

To be fair, I'm not really comfortable doing something for the first time, I have to have done it several times and feel like an expert at it to be comfortable. Jobs that expect me to just "pick it up as I go along" are terrible for me. For one thing, I act completely differently when I'm under too much stress. At times, I just "shut down" and ignore the world around me while I try to regain control.

As you can probably imagine, that's not good for my job performance. It's gotten so bad that I've wondered if I should just try to apply for disability benefits and stop playing the deception games with my employers. I always have to make up an excuse for my tics, hangups, and idiosyncrasies. They've even made me feel like calling in sick in the past, yet even though my little issues can be somewhat debilitating and interfere with my daily life (I missed a few important exams in college due to panic attacks), I don't really qualify as "disabled," and I could do a job that was low on stress and required no oral communication, but where am I going to find that, especially with an Education degree?

School was almost exclusively paperwork, and, when it wasn't, there was someone there to "hold my hand" and "make sure I succeeded." I never really got much of a taste of what the real teaching world would be like, aside from subbing,which I was assured by the other teachers was a fiasco by design and I "shouldn't take it personally." I don't really get it. If there's that much wrong with me, why hasn't anyone acted like they noticed? How do I get hired, and how do I keep getting hired? The only people I've gotten any feedback from about what might be wrong, were the students.

These "shutdowns" are real. There are times where I can't even talk to people, like at all. Luckily, though, somehow my boss has never caught me having an episode. I guess it's amazing I've lasted this long. Because of all of this, I don't really feel like going back to work, but since I haven't been declared eligible for disability benefits, I suppose I will have to. I never imagined it could get this bad until I was dealing with it. I'm not sure anti-depressants are to blame or not, but I have been taking medication in attempt to "control" these symptoms. I hate how treatments for this kind of stuff are so hit-or-miss. I can almost promise you that some of this stuff makes me feel worse, not better.

Last edited by krmb; 12-01-2018 at 06:53 PM..
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