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Old 02-17-2019, 02:29 AM
 
Location: on the wind
7,123 posts, read 2,926,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Pretty much same as before. Nothing new. Just keep on assuming nothing will happen until something does. You can worry yourself to death over Fed hiring.
Agree. Different wording saying much the same thing as before. You are past the initial bar of basic eligibility for the position. Your name will show up on a list of eligible candidates a selecting official can use to interview from. No idea just when that might happen, no clue how many others are also on that list, nor how you rank in comparison to them. You are still waiting for an interview to be scheduled.
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Old 02-17-2019, 08:16 AM
 
6,846 posts, read 3,718,587 times
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To give you an idea, here's what happens when we get a list of eligible in our org. There is a panel formed, typically before the resumes arrive so everyone is ready. In our org that panel is typically the selecting official, a SME, and at least one independent member. The panel is chosen to have both male and female and minority members.

The panel members will independent review and score the resumes against the skills required for the job and recommend the order of candidates. This takes about 2-3 days. The selecting official will then call the top 3-5 candidates to schedule interviews. This is another 2-3 days. Due to scheduling and wanting to give everyone a fair chance, interviews take a couple of weeks. After interviews the panel will meet to rank candidates. At which point the SO will process the tentative offer with HR. And then make the offer to the selected person. These steps take about another week. This person may accept, decline, or try to negotiate. So add another week. If they turn it down the SO will go to the second person on the list.

All this assumes the panel accepts candidates on the list. Often, none of the candidates will have the right skills listed in their resumes and the whole list gets rejected. So it's important not to think of the phrase "best qualified" as having any meaning whatsoever. All it means is that HR sent the list. We probably kick back over 50% of the lists we get from HR as not having any qualified individuals on it. We just sent back one the other day.
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:16 AM
 
2,420 posts, read 691,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axl1156 View Post
Serious question, OP:

Why do you want to work for the federal government? If you've been watching the news lately, you should be aware that you'll be lucky to get a paycheck. I would love to work for the IRS but only if our federal government changes the way they handle budge crises.
Well, most of the government is not shut down.

During the worst government shutdown in history (the most recent one) only 25% of the government was shut down. The remainder of Feddies got their paychecks.

The government is the only place you can get a stable job.
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Old 02-17-2019, 11:50 AM
 
6,880 posts, read 7,281,254 times
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Tnff, just curious, how is it possible to get no -- NO -- qualified applicants. I just can't imagine that. (just numerically and odds-wise, with all the people -- qualified people -- looking for jobs, who want to get into gov't service -- I just can't imagine NO candidates being worthy of at least an interview.

I'm the kind of person that only applies if I'm qualified enough to at least get an interview. I don't waste my time with the resume if that's not the case.

How much success might a person have negotiating -- to come in higher than a Step 1 of a given Pay Grade? Are most offers take it or leave it? How would you suggest negotiating?

IS it true you have to interview at least 3 (or 4) people for each position? So if there are 3 positions you have to interview at least 10 or so people?

Also, is it true:
-- that jobs are posted when they already know they'll hire from within but they have to post it.
-- that announcements are written so that more than likely only the person the SO/HO wants will score the highest.

I've seen many announcements only open for one day, which seems suspect. It may not be but it certainly can make one wonder.
I've also seen questionnaires with questions that have nothing to do with the job...such as a writing position and a question might be "have you ever owned your own business?" WTF? THAT is the kind of out of left field question (IMO) that makes me wonder if they've written the announcement for a particular person they know they want.

Also I see A LOT of announcements pulled because something is wrong with the announcement. It seems to me hiring officials want purple unicorn candidates, but the people posting the announcements don't have their own act together.

Last edited by selhars; 02-17-2019 at 12:10 PM..
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:52 PM
 
Location: on the wind
7,123 posts, read 2,926,431 times
Reputation: 24138
just curious, how is it possible to get no -- NO -- qualified applicants. I just can't imagine that. (just numerically and odds-wise, with all the people -- qualified people -- looking for jobs, who want to get into gov't service -- I just can't imagine NO candidates being worthy of at least an interview.

The position may have very specific qualifications or require technical certifications. Sometimes applicants don't really read the vacancy announcements very carefully. The vacancy might be limited to "local commuting area" that is defined. People forget that government isn't a private business. There is less personal discretion. They can't just do whatever they want or take exceptions to OPM's rules.

I'm the kind of person that only applies if I'm qualified enough to at least get an interview. I don't waste my time with the resume if that's not the case.

Not everyone does this. Some flood every vacancy announcement with applications hoping one will pay off.

How much success might a person have negotiating -- to come in higher than a Step 1 of a given Pay Grade? Are most offers take it or leave it? How would you suggest negotiating?

I don't know about all federal agencies but the ones I've applied to don't "negotiate". The position is the position, period. The pay is the pay. You either qualify for it at the advertised level or you don't. If you are a status employee (already have a permanent status job) and have some time in a lower grade they can offer you the next higher one. There are vacancies that have some flexibility in which GS level they hire at (like a GS 5/7/9) but you will see that right up front in the announcement.

IS it true you have to interview at least 3 (or 4) people for each position? So if there are 3 positions you have to interview at least 10 or so people?

Never heard of that, but maybe some agencies do it.

Also, is it true:
-- that jobs are posted when they already know they'll hire from within but they have to post it.
-- that announcements are written so that more than likely only the person the SO/HO wants will score the highest.


If the position is actually vacant and there isn't an employee who can transfer into it non-competitively, they'll announce a vacancy. A current employee who wants to be considered has to apply and compete with everyone else. An office might have an employee they would prefer to hire into it, but they still have to announce and consider applications. If an employee is already working at that site they may end up having experience or skills specific to that office, so they'll obviously have an advantage. Managers often have people they hope get the job, but they still have to demonstrate that they were eligible and qualified for it. If a well-qualified applicant with vet preference points shows up on the list, it can be difficult to legitimately "reach" the person they'd prefer to hire.

I've seen many announcements only open for one day, which seems suspect. It may not be but it certainly can make one wonder.

It happens. Especially when they know they'll get a lot of applications. Sometimes there may be an employee at that site they hope will apply so the opening is short, but they still have to go through the whole interview process.

I've also seen questionnaires with questions that have nothing to do with the job...such as a writing position and a question might be "have you ever owned your own business?" WTF? THAT is the kind of out of left field question (IMO) that makes me wonder if they've written the announcement for a particular person they know they want.

Look, vacancies have to match the requirements of the job. There could well be aspects of that writing job that will be better met if the person filling it has the experience of owning a business. There are two layers of "eligibility"...the basic stuff like US citizenship, a college degree, a certification, years of applicable experience at a certain GS level, and there are less tangible qualifications...the sorts of writing, public speaking, managerial experience, technical training, etc.

Also I see A LOT of announcements pulled because something is wrong with the announcement. It seems to me hiring officials want purple unicorn candidates, but the people posting the announcements don't have their own act together.

Mistakes happen. It's a huge moving target all the time nationwide. Funding gets pulled back. Someone transfers from another office with short notice. Someone within an office changes career tracks, decides they want that job, and they don't need to compete for it. Some vacancies are announced on various registers to gauge interest, but then a hiring happens through a different route.
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Old 02-17-2019, 11:18 PM
 
6,846 posts, read 3,718,587 times
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Let me try to answer. I'll remove the quote so hopefully the answer will stay with the question in case someone quotes this message. Parnissa has provided some very good answers already. My answers will be in RED.

[quote=selhars;54457972]Tnff, just curious, how is it possible to get no -- NO -- qualified applicants. I just can't imagine that. (just numerically and odds-wise, with all the people -- qualified people -- looking for jobs, who want to get into gov't service -- I just can't imagine NO candidates being worthy of at least an interview.

You'd be surprised how easy it is to get no qualified applicants. As already mentioned there are some people who just shotgun apply. This is something I've discussed on other threads. The numbers of applicants doesn't indicate the number of qualified applicants, at least when filling professional degree positions. One example is if we're hiring for an Aerospace Engineer. A civil engineer for example may not qualify because we require knowledge in say, X, and the civil engineer is trained in Y but not X. Aircraft for example are not built of concrete. We get a lot of applicants who have a degree, but not a qualifying degree. That's just at the degree level. Then within the degree are various sub specialties. Don't have specific statistics, but based on the resumes I've reviewed over the last few years, less than one in 10 new grads specialize in the areas we need. That's for entry level. While we can train, we can't take you back to redo the last two years of college.

I'm the kind of person that only applies if I'm qualified enough to at least get an interview. I don't waste my time with the resume if that's not the case.

How much success might a person have negotiating -- to come in higher than a Step 1 of a given Pay Grade? Are most offers take it or leave it? How would you suggest negotiating?
In general we don't typically negotiate. Some supervisors do more of it today than a couple years ago for people coming in from industry to try to match their private sector salary. In my experience it's never turned out well in the long run. Personally I'm not in favor of negotiating because you've set a precedent for one person that you can't match for the others.

IS it true you have to interview at least 3 (or 4) people for each position? So if there are 3 positions you have to interview at least 10 or so people?
At one time various personnel offices had policies requiring min of 3 or "all or none" policies but today, no we don't have to. In DoD we also have direct hire which means we can accept resumes and interview/hire without going through USAJOBS.
Also, is it true:
-- that jobs are posted when they already know they'll hire from within but they have to post it.
-- that announcements are written so that more than likely only the person the SO/HO wants will score the highest.

I've seen many announcements only open for one day, which seems suspect. It may not be but it certainly can make one wonder.

I won't say that never happens. Sometimes you have a solid worker that has earned a promotion. But you can't just promote someone, unlike in the private sector. The job has to be announced and the incumbent has to compete for it against everyone else. Sometimes you have to compete for your own job.
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Old 02-19-2019, 02:09 AM
 
6,880 posts, read 7,281,254 times
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Thanks, parnassia and tiff. Good info.
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Old 02-26-2019, 04:50 PM
 
14 posts, read 5,386 times
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parnassia and tiff I received 2 email and both are for different jobs. I know the job doesn't mean anything but can someone explain to me the next phase. thanks in advanced.

First email:
Position: INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY SPECIALIST *12 MONTH ROSTER*
Series: 2210 Grade: 13

Dear ********:

Determination: Tentatively Category A

Thank you for your interest in employment with the Internal Revenue Service. This is a Notice of Rating. This is not a job offer.

You are rated as follows:

Rating: TENTATIVELY SUPERIOR QUALIFIED (Category A)
Eligible Grades: 13
Veteran's Status: NOT A VET

Applicants who meet minimum qualification requirements are placed in the SUPERIOR QUALIFIED category and will be given first consideration. [If you have not received a notice of eligibility already, you will be receiving one through e-mail indicating whether you have or have not met the minimum qualification requirements.]

Candidates will be considered in category group order. Preference eligibles who meet the minimum qualification requirements and who have a compensable service-connected disability of at least 10 percent must be listed in the highest quality category (except in the case of scientific or professional positions at the GS-9 level or higher). All other preference eligible' s will be assigned based on their responses to the questions and will be referred for selection before non-preference eligible' s with the same category. Applicants are tentatively assigned to a category group pending qualifications validation and/or assessment results.


2nd email:
You have been determined tentatively eligible for the above position based upon your responses to the on-line questions through the automated hiring system (CareerConnector). As a result, we will be referring your name to the Selecting Official. You may be contacted for an interview. If you are selected for this position, your qualifications will be verified prior to a firm offer being made and/or entering on duty. If you have any questions concerning the status of your application, please refer to the agency contact information in the announcement. To view the announcement, return to your USAJOBS account, click application status and click the announcement number for the vacancy contact info.

Last edited by Grizz19991; 02-26-2019 at 05:03 PM..
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Old 02-26-2019, 06:58 PM
 
Location: on the wind
7,123 posts, read 2,926,431 times
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Can't quite tell, but maybe its just another notification that your name will be forwarded to a selecting official for another of the vacancies you applied for. Maybe it would clarify this to match up the vacancy numbers you applied for to the vacancy numbers in these emails. Nothing has really changed. Just have to keep waiting for notifications from a selecting official that you were selected for an interview.

Last edited by Parnassia; 02-26-2019 at 07:42 PM..
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:17 AM
 
14 posts, read 5,386 times
Reputation: 20
Does any one know when HR will start looking at external applicants. I heard that the first day of training is in June
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