Not knowing the salary until offer letter, weird or no?

[dazeddude8]

Originally Posted by rummage

No, that is not a NYC thing or a NJ thing, or any place thing where someone is running a good business.

Places that don't tell you the salary range for the position, are doing so for a reason, because it is low. If it was actually what they say, there would be no reason not to give you a salary range. They know exactly what they are doing, the jobs are defined for the company based on the cost.

I wouldn't bother scheduling an interview or even going further in a phone screening unless they can tell you the salary range. Anyone who thinks this is inappropriate doesn't understand business. And before anyone with low self-esteem chimes in to call people "greedy" who ask this question, that is being foolish. Because if you are making $100K a year, it is a waste of your time to go in for an interview for a job that pays $50K and to only find that out after an interview or two or when the offer comes in. It is not rude to ask about salary and other compensation, after all, their customers ask for prices all the time for their products and services. If they don't align with their budget, they walk, and you need to be just as professional.

Yeah it just came off as very strange. I can get not seeing the salary on the job posting online, not that I like not seeing the salary posted but I get that is what most companies do most of the time. But going to the in-person interview and still not knowing the salary, was really quite bizarre ( I am hoping that was a one-off type of thing).

[rummage]

Originally Posted by dazeddude8

Yeah it just came off as very strange. I can get not seeing the salary on the job posting online, not that I like not seeing the salary posted but I get that is what most companies do most of the time. But going to the in-person interview and still not knowing the salary, was really quite bizarre ( I am hoping that was a one-off type of thing).

There is a psychology at play here and some employers practice this fully. They give no salary information at all, and continue to make it look like if you are one of the selected few to make it to that stage they will discuss it with you. Or if you actually get selected, like it is a Miss America Contest you will be awarded with an offer.

The psychology part of this is that if you continue to make someone be involved in the process, it will soften you up so that you forgot about applying for other jobs cause it looks like you have this one. That is, if you are "lucky" enough to be selected. Then since you have this time and heavy emotional investment in getting this job, the company and the people you have been in touch with there, you are easier for them to low-ball a job offer when it comes. By then, they make you think they are your friends, and with friends you don't want to let them down and with you so focused on getting this job you are far more susceptible to accepting a low-ball offer.

There are people who claim, this is a waste of time for the company to do this. Not really. HR gets a requirement to fill a job. Remember, HR is judged on the number of offers made that are accepted. Not the number of great people they find for the job, but when HR calls and makes the offer, you accept it, that helps HR. So HR cooks up this scheme to soften you to take the job for less money by concealing it and stringing you along.

OK, this is how it saves the company money. Let's say HR gets a requirement from a hiring manager to fill this job and the market rate for a good person like that is $100K a year. I'm doing this just to keep the math simple. But HR believes they can find people who will ultimately accepted $80K a year for this job, if they play their game correctly.

Here is the math. HR spends perhaps 5 hours on the candidate which includes talking on the phone, emails and interviewing. Then the hiring manager the interview is another hour plus 4 hours with each of the hiring team. So far this is 10 hours. Then they bring you back in for two more rounds, so let's say this is 30 hours total. After they worked you, they make an offer and you end up accepting the job for $80K.

They saved $20K annually on you for only 30 hours of work. Let's say they do this with 5 people total. That's only 150 hours. Even if the average cost to the company is $50.00 an hour for their employees that is only an investment of $7500.00 to net $12,500 for the first year of your salary and I'm not even including the fact that the savings is more than that since you bonus will be based on a percentage of $80K a year instead of $100K a year. So after the first year, they clear $20K or more each year in savings for this. And you can well imagine even with a 5% salary increase each year how many years it is going to take you to get to $100K which is what you were really worth to begin with. It would take 6 years. So the company saved at least $20K X 6 years to be $120K! That's a great ROI (Return On Investment) for the company. Meanwhile with the cost of living increases that $100K isn't worth $100K 6 years later.

So when they won't tell you salary or claim they don't know it, continue with your job search. Don't be fooled into thinking, well, I am making $100K already at my current job, they aren't going to offer me less. Yes, they are, but it will be done with lots of drama about how good the company is, and these benefits which don't have any real cash valve to you, and talk about how low their turnover is there.

HR knows exactly what they are doing. This strategy has been planned even before they posted the job.

[Thoreau424]

For me at least, a definite pay level is rarely given before an acceptance letter or hire. Maybe only 5% of the time.

They usually ask for a desired rate or range, so they know what bounds to work within. But there always seems to be variability behind the scenes, and things don't get nailed down until near the end.