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Completely agree with zxcv! This is exactly how it works when these recruiters actually have REAL clients with REAL jobs to interview for!
It's called -- plain and simple -- fishing for leads, folks! And, all recruiters have to do this from time to time.
They have no open positions to fill and are looking for manager names to get into the organizations you either work at or have worked for so they WILL have something to fill!
Don't fall for this! You'll be out of a job and out of references quickly if you pass these out upfront -- and NO interview in sight!
I agree wholeheartedly. I was going to go in for a "visit" with one of these recruiting offices on Friday, but when they told me to have Manager references up front I have since reconsidered. They are doing exactly as you say New, fishing for leads.
Most people want references from former COWORKERS because they realize management from your former job may not be exactly the best kind of reference in light of management representative of the company you are no longer with. Besides, managers can say nothing more than "he/she worked here for x months/years" legally.
I agree wholeheartedly. I was going to go in for a "visit" with one of these recruiting offices on Friday, but when they told me to have Manager references up front I have since reconsidered. They are doing exactly as you say New, fishing for leads.
Most people want references from former COWORKERS because they realize management from your former job may not be exactly the best kind of reference in light of management representative of the company you are no longer with. Besides, managers can say nothing more than "he/she worked here for x months/years" legally.
The whole idea of "references" as a means of doing due dilligence is completely antiquated, IMO. In general it is a BS exercise, between the fact that employees of most companies aren't allowed to give out referneces - they are only allowed to send you to HR who will give you dates of employment - and the fact that no one gives someone a reference who will say something bad about them. If a recruiter pushes you for a manager's reference to work with you, just tell them that your company or manager has a policy of not giving out references for former employees, sorry, they only give out dates of employment. Nothing a recruiter can do in that case. Even if a manager doesn't like an ex-employee, he's not going to trash the employee because of lawsuit issues...that's the thing. Recruiters say they want to do this because they think an ex-boss will paint an unbiased picture, but the reality is there are too many legal issues with saying bad things about ex-employees so many won't say anything. Like I said before, it's a really easy way for them to get an executive on the phone and they want to check references because a recruiter has to make 20 or 30 phone calls before having a real conversation with a VP type...or they can check references for candidates and get them on the phone easily.
So let me ask all the recruiters herein. Suppose you get a bad reference... do you ever hear out the potential recruit's side of the story?
Seems to me this whole game is a little one sided.
Of course. The reference's story is usually going to mean more though. That person has no reason to lie or spin anything, unless he just doesn't want the candidate to get the job. In which case, I wouldn't think the candidate would give me that person as a reference in the first place.
I like to ask certain recruiters, 'are you at home working from your kitchen table?' There are so many unprofessional recruiters out there right now it's ridiculous. They have no idea what the job is they're recruiting for is all about. A lot of times you can tell by their job postings. Most recruiters I speak with seem to be clueless. I have fun with some of them. Questions you can ask the clueless ones.1. Have you read my resume?2. How long have you been in this industry?3. Are you wearing a helmet right now?4. Is your bed shaped like a race car?5. When did you give up on looking for a real job to become a recruiter?Back in the good old days, 7 to 10 years ago when you worked with a HR person from the company hiring, you'd be working with professionals that knew about their industry. They would actually READ a resume before contacting the applicant. They could determine from the resume if you were a fit for the position before they'd even consider contacting you. They would note and understand that if you listed on the job board that you were NOT considering relocation, they wouldn't contact you if you lived were more than 25 to 35 miles away from the job site. To all you clueless recruiters out there, you are the ramora of the human race. I hope you lose your home, your family disowns you, and that you strongly consider sitting in your running automobile in an enclosed garage for a long, long time....
I have allowed people to use me as a reference. I ask that they let me know someone might be calling so I am ready for them. When it comes to an actual company offering a job, the person calling always asks questions about the candidate. When it comes to a staffing firm, very rarely does this happen. What happens is, if my current company does not use them, they want to "introduce their company" to me and ask if I have any jobs to fill, need temporary workers OR they tell me they have a job that I might be suitable for if I am looking for a change and want me to come in and register with them! If my current company does use them I never hear from them. (As I said before, I ask that people tell me that they put me down as a reference and which company they gave my contact info to.) I work in NYC. Perhaps it is different in other areas. I find that staffing agencies do not come up with candidates "like magic" that companies themselves cannot find. They look for candidates the same way: they place ads. The place where staffing agencies come in handy is the interview and testing pre-screening. They can save a company a lot of time that way. I would never demand that an agency check references of candidates first because managers are busy people and do not need to receive calls from employment agencies, then more calls from the company doing the hiring if they are interested in the candidate. It can burn people out who are already busy and who are actually doing another person a favor and often going against official company policy, which is to refer reference checkers to HR who will only confirm dates of employment, salary, job title, and whether a person is eligible for rehire. When I get a fishing call from an employment agency that I know was referred to me by a hopeful job candidate I have nothing but contempt for them and try and get off the phone with the bottom-feeder as soon as possible. I have in the past said "aren't you going to ask me about the person who referred you to me?" but all I get is clueless lies, like "I'm in sales, not recruiting, nobody referred you to me."
I I find that staffing agencies do not come up with candidates "like magic" that companies themselves cannot find. They look for candidates the same way: they place ads. The place where staffing agencies come in handy is the interview and testing pre-screening. They can save a company a lot of time that way. "
I happen to agree with this observation. Also, I agree with several others on the reference piece. References may be asked up front as part of the application process but most companies don't go through the effort (time and cost if they are using an outside company that charges per background reference) of checking references until they feel strongly about the candidate, typically after all interviews have been completed. I'd be a bit suspicious of companies doing reference checks before even having an initial interview. It's just not very common. To the OP, are you sure they are actually calling your references.
Recruiters get references for 2 reasons.....to see past performance before sending a talent to their client and to get leads for their sales people. The job of a recruiter is to find the best people and so all of the pre-screening prior to sending to a client.....that's one of the main reasons staffing companies are used by companies.
As for the comment "no recruiters should respond because you know our story"..while I am not a recruiter I work in staffing and you obviously have not met or my team because with us a reference is a reference. That's it. You should check your attitude at the door.....could be the reason you aren't working.
You will find that Corporations are finding out that these staffing companies and it's recruiters are useless and do nothing but suck money from them. In this day and time their days are numbered. Their services aren't needed.
And the excuse that has been used here (and everywhere else) that they are to pick the *best* candidate is BS. A recruiter is nothing more than a sales person. If a salesman doesn't know his product then guess what, you can't sell it. It is a proven fact that people will not buy something from an individual if they aren't convinced that the salesman believes in the product. In this case, the product is a candidate. I have found that a large percentage of them can't even read with comprehension.
Recruiters are too busy posting false ads to build a database of names and building false hopes in people to learn the product to sell it. Most of them don't even have the common courtesy to pick up the phone and respond when a candidate responds to an ad. What they fail to realize is that when they put out a call for resumes and they receive them, they are then obligated to respond to the potential candidate.
I encourage every one to not let a recruiter dampen your day. They are the ones who have no class or etiquette and will lose in the end.
Be encouraged, job seekers will come put on top! Good luck.
You will find that Corporations are finding out that these staffing companies and it's recruiters are useless and do nothing but suck money from them. In this day and time their days are numbered. Their services aren't needed.
And the excuse that has been used here (and everywhere else) that they are to pick the *best* candidate is BS. A recruiter is nothing more than a sales person. If a salesman doesn't know his product then guess what, you can't sell it. It is a proven fact that people will not buy something from an individual if they aren't convinced that the salesman believes in the product. In this case, the product is a candidate. I have found that a large percentage of them can't even read with comprehension.
Recruiters are too busy posting false ads to build a database of names and building false hopes in people to learn the product to sell it. Most of them don't even have the common courtesy to pick up the phone and respond when a candidate responds to an ad. What they fail to realize is that when they put out a call for resumes and they receive them, they are then obligated to respond to the potential candidate.
I encourage every one to not let a recruiter dampen your day. They are the ones who have no class or etiquette and will lose in the end.
Be encouraged, job seekers will come put on top! Good luck.
My first guess is that you had a bad experience with a recruiter. For that I am sorry. Not all staffing agencies as you put are "sucking money" from their clients. If done correctly and with a consultative approach not only can staffing agencies get people working in a down economy, they can also save companies tons of money.
Are all agencies great? No. Are there companies out there just using people to get profits? Of course.........but if you do your research and you ask the right people the right questions you can have another resource with contacts in organizations that you normally would not have access too.
Staffing companies do more than just source candidates and submit to a client. Their services save companies $$ by alleviating the burden of employing people. Benefits, training, unemployment/worker's comp insurance etc.. are all costs of employing people and when a staffing agency is doing all of that, companies save $$. Also, when headcount is not available.....like nowadays.....people can work as contractors or 1099 employees and not be seen as headcount but are still working, still getting paid and in some cases still receiving benefits.
My question is....how many companies have you applied to in the past? How many of them got back to you regardless of what the outcome was? If it's 100% then you are in the minority. Truth be told most companies....staffing or not will a) not get back to you if you are not a viable candidate, b) ask for references up front to speed the process along and c) do what is best for them as opposed to the 10, 50 or 500 people who apply for a job. It's that simple. Is it perfect? No....but if companies were perfect then we would not be in the mess we are now would we? Good luck to all of those who are job seekers and those who are employers. It's going to be a rough year.
My goodness there are some stupid people posting in this thread. Recruiters are useless? You should just mess with and belittle recruiters? Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Yeah, in this economy those sound like great ideas. Burn a bridge (somethings the ONLY bridge) that will lead you from unemployed to a job. Genius!
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