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They ARE taking jobs from US students. Unless the employer can't find a US citizen or green card holder to do the job, there shouldn't even be a shred of consideration towards visa holders.
In this day and age when there aren't anough jobs to go around for US citizens, and US students are dropping out at an alarming rate because they can't afford college--partially due to the lack of jobs--the trend towards hiring foreigners is disturbing. We need to clean up our own backyard before we can help out the rest of the world.
I couldn't agree with you more. I think ALL employers should try to hire US citizens first, then green card holders, then if they still can't find anyone to do the job, then hire the people with visas.
We have US citizens who are starving themselves, losing their homes, and all their possessions because they can not find work. There are Americans who can not even get unemployment benefits because of a "backlog" in their state. We have Americans who are forced to live in Third World conditions. Yet, we are still hiring people with visas.
...the trend towards hiring foreigners is disturbing.....
Agreed, but equally disturbing is the great disrespect many US employers have towards American workers. One example of this is moving US companies overseas so that they can get cheap labor or making the work environment very nasty, again to save money. I think it is getting ridiculous. They are clearly taking advantage of the American worker. Employers are hiring visa holders not because they can't find able american workers but to find workers who will accept low wages to do good work. No american worker can accept a $12.00/hr job when he/she knows he/she is qualified to earn more!! Visa or foreign workers have no problem accepting $12/hr and will do the job without complaint. American workers may take this job temporarily but will be out once things look good for them.
Clearly, US employers want to pay as little as possible if they can get away with it (and pocket the huge profit ). In short, they are not hiring visa/foreign workers because they cannot find qualified US citizens. They just want CHEAP labor. Very sad!
Agreed, but equally disturbing is the great disrespect many US employers have towards American workers. One example of this is moving US companies overseas so that they can get cheap labor or making the work environment very nasty, again to save money. I think it is getting ridiculous. They are clearly taking advantage of the American worker. Employers are hiring visa holders not because they can't find able american workers but to find workers who will accept low wages to do good work. No american worker can accept a $12.00/hr job when he/she knows he/she is qualified to earn more!! Visa or foreign workers have no problem accepting $12/hr and will do the job without complaint. American workers may take this job temporarily but will be out once things look good for them.
Clearly, US employers want to pay as little as possible if they can get away with it (and pocket the huge profit ). In short, they are not hiring visa/foreign workers because they cannot find qualified US citizens. They just want CHEAP labor. Very sad!
IMO, we wouldn't be in this recession if we stopped hiring foreign workers. Its really hard to take, being the only one on the block unemployed, all our neighbors are foreign, go to work every day while we sit here, fighting to survive. We need to reset our priorities, we've become second-class citizens in our own country!
Here is the pfd information sheet referred to. More than anything it is explaining the law regarding the hiring of foreign students as it now stands. Note that it says that tax must be collected by those in certain categories. No where does it say that you should hire a foreign student over a US student.
I would much rather see US students employed myself but all I see is a misinterpretation regarding the thrust of this advisory. Higher education in the US is one of our in-demand exports to the outside world. It is also part of the diversity movement that everyone seems to like so much and the thrust to bring the most ambitious and brightest here. The assumption is that these students will either stay on here to work or return to their own countries to make the place better. While it can make for more competition, under strict control and the right circumstances it might not be as bad as portrayed in the original scare link. Now, the granting of an excess of H1b visas is another story. I believe in hiring American workers first.
First point-- the jobs being taken by foreign students are not for accounting, business, american studies, sociology--- or any other dime a dozen degree.
Life is competition. Yes I think it is sad that not everyone has a job. But if you have a foreign student here majoring in engineering, making incredible scores at the top of their class-- against an US born student who majored in a lighter subject and not at the top of their class-- why would I have to hire the native born person first?
Same applies if I am comparing apples to apples (American engineering student against the foreign born student). The job is going to pay the same regardless. American companies hiring foreign students for OPT jobs (optional practical training) are NOT seeking to pay them lower wages than they would an American. Many of you are thinking this is the same thing as a company going overseas to hire engineers for 12.50 an hour versus paying someone onshore for 40.00 an hour. An American student or foreign student will be paid the same.
Also, OPT training full time jobs are post graduation for an undergrad or grad school. For most jobs these OPT jobs can be ONLY for 12 months. In some cases they can be extended for 17 months (jobs where the US does not have significant and vast pools of trained talent - actuaries, engineering, sciences). Yes, some students and companies are then able to go to the H1-B route but that is not guaranteed.
Look at our science graduates, engineering, and even actuary science graduates. We are far below what is common in countries such as India. There is not such a huge push for our own kids to major in actual, practical applied fields. People still think college in some cases is made for everyone (those are not the students who are going to become actuaries) and college is an "experience" (i.e college sports, fraternities, socializing, etc are for more important than the actual studies). Heck in many cases we judge universities of status based on their athletics program. At that point-- don't be so surprised that the foreign students are making up entire departments of hard core sciences (my best friend was the ONLY US citizen in a biostatistics program out of 23 students. The ONLY non foreign student-- btw he is HEAVILY in demand now because he has a lot more to offer than the typical foreign student i.e. command of English). And then consequently, don't be surprised when those foreign students are taking a job!
In my experience working in both HR and payroll (I see the student visas, the inpats, etc), the foreign students are NOT taking the jobs that many of you are thinking about. The foreign student is NOT taking the everyday business analyst or accounting job. They are taking jobs that most American students do not seek education (actuaries, statistics analysts, engineering).
Food for thought, I am friends with an Indian couple. The husband is here on a H1-B. He is an actuary. His wife is eligible now to work on her F-1. She has an MBA. She can't find a job. Quite simply, MBAs are a dime a dozen -- American companies do not need her. Her husband, on the other hand, IS needed and in short supply.
I am not worried he has this job-- there is NO way I have the brain power to be an actuary and pass those tests EVEN THOUGH my employer would give me up to a year PAID to study and take all of the exams.
Last edited by lovetheduns; 08-15-2009 at 07:20 AM..
IMO, we wouldn't be in this recession if we stopped hiring foreign workers. Its really hard to take, being the only one on the block unemployed, all our neighbors are foreign, go to work every day while we sit here, fighting to survive. We need to reset our priorities, we've become second-class citizens in our own country!
Yes ma'am...I agree with you!
We must first take care of our own. With the unemployment numbers where they are it should be priority one to put our people back to work. But instead, it is about greed. No matter what anyone says, when a foreign worker is hired not only do they get paid less than what a US citizen would get paid the employer will get a kick back from the government (in many different ways) for hiring this person.
We must first take care of our own. With the unemployment numbers where they are it should be priority one to put our people back to work. But instead, it is about greed. No matter what anyone says, when a foreign worker is hired not only do they get paid less than what a US citizen would get paid the employer will get a kick back from the government (in many different ways) for hiring this person.
It is sad and disgusting to say the least.
Chromekitty- you are talking about offshoring. Employers do not hire foreign students at crap wages just so they don't have to pay more for an American student.
I am not trying to be glib, but seriously go back to school for one of those fields and you WILL have your choice of jobs because the preference would be to hire a US citizen for many of these jobs.
Chromekitty- you are talking about offshoring. Employers do not hire foreign students at crap wages just so they don't have to pay more for an American student.
I am not trying to be glib, but seriously go back to school for one of those fields and you WILL have your choice of jobs because the preference would be to hire a US citizen for many of these jobs.
No, I am not speaking of offshoring.
I have no need to return to school at this point, that has nothing to do with my point. I am not job searching at this point, I am thankful for that.
We must first take care of our own. With the unemployment numbers where they are it should be priority one to put our people back to work. But instead, it is about greed. No matter what anyone says, when a foreign worker is hired not only do they get paid less than what a US citizen would get paid the employer will get a kick back from the government (in many different ways) for hiring this person.
It is sad and disgusting to say the least.
BTW, my husband is an engineer with 2 bachelors and 2 masters in engineering, plus 25+ years experience, not a "dime a dozen" worker. Yet every day we see Indians, Chinese, etc going to work while he sits at home waiting for a call or out pounding the pavement all but begging for a job. I guess the H-1b visa holders are doing jobs he wouldn't/couldn't? Sorry, that's a theory I find hard to accept.
I don't know the differences between these visa's, but I do work with a lot of people from India and China. They don't make any less than anyone else to start. One woman I'm friendly with wasn't able to get our co to sponsor her for a visa (she's a temp). I think the employer has to fork out an extra 5k to sponsor for a visa (or something). It doesn't make sense that these people would be getting hired if they weren't needed.
In the last two rounds of candidate selection I was involved with in my dept. we hired one citizen and another guy from Russia. There were 3 candidates each round and 4 of the six were from India. They were all kids, tho. They didn't have the experience the others did, so they didn't get the jobs. Point being, not one of the candidates were young American grads. That surprised me. eta: These were the choices HR passed along.
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I couldn't agree with you more. I think ALL employers should try to hire US citizens first, then green card holders, then if they still can't find anyone to do the job, then hire the people with visas. 
). In short, they are not hiring visa/foreign workers because they cannot find qualified US citizens. They just want CHEAP labor. Very sad!
