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Old 12-28-2011, 08:52 AM
 
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This subject seems to come up in a lot of different threads, so I figured a single thread could put the subject to rest. Who is considered to be Jewish?
1. Born of a Jewish mother, or...
2. Not born of a Jewish mother, but had an appropriate halachic conversion (a conversion is only considered valid if the convert fully accepts and agrees to practice all 613 mitzvos)
3. Must accept Rambam's 13 Principles of Jewish faith in it's entirety.
4. Must NOT accept Jesus in any way shape or form (this is covered in Rambam's 13 Principles, but i thought I'd point it out for clarity)

How is a typical conversion done?
1. Potential convert goes to a Torah Observant rabbi and expresses interest in becoming Jewish.
2. Rabbi tries to dissuade potential convert. Why would anybody want to convert to Judaism, when they have a perfectly valid route to Olam Haba (the world to come) by simply following the 7 Noahide Laws?
3. If potential convert is sincere and persists in his desire to convert, rabbi will connect him to somebody willing to "sponsor" this potential conversion.
4. Sponsor spends anywhere from 2-5 years on average helping potential convert works his way through all the necessary considerations to converting
5. Once sponsor believes the person is ready for conversion, a "beis din," which is a panel of three Torah Observant Jewish judges, meets with individual and tests the individual on his/her sincerity and jewish knowledge.
6. If not ready, keep working on it.
7. If deemed ready, a trip to the mikvah for a kosher dunk, and boom, their non-Jewish soul is discarded and the person is "re-born" as a full yid. It's as if they stood together with the jewish nation 3300 years ago at Mount Sinai and accepted the Torah with all their Jewish brothers and sisters.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
3,334 posts, read 5,259,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
This subject seems to come up in a lot of different threads, so I figured a single thread could put the subject to rest. Who is considered to be Jewish?
1. Born of a Jewish mother, or...
2. Not born of a Jewish mother, but had an appropriate halachic conversion (a conversion is only considered valid if the convert fully accepts and agrees to practice all 613 mitzvos)
3. Must accept Rambam's 13 Principles of Jewish faith in it's entirety.
4. Must NOT accept Jesus in any way shape or form (this is covered in Rambam's 13 Principles, but i thought I'd point it out for clarity)

How is a typical conversion done?
1. Potential convert goes to a Torah Observant rabbi and expresses interest in becoming Jewish.
2. Rabbi tries to dissuade potential convert. Why would anybody want to convert to Judaism, when they have a perfectly valid route to Olam Haba (the world to come) by simply following the 7 Noahide Laws?
3. If potential convert is sincere and persists in his desire to convert, rabbi will connect him to somebody willing to "sponsor" this potential conversion.
4. Sponsor spends anywhere from 2-5 years on average helping potential convert works his way through all the necessary considerations to converting
5. Once sponsor believes the person is ready for conversion, a "beis din," which is a panel of three Torah Observant Jewish judges, meets with individual and tests the individual on his/her sincerity and jewish knowledge.
6. If not ready, keep working on it.
7. If deemed ready, a trip to the mikvah for a kosher dunk, and boom, their non-Jewish soul is discarded and the person is "re-born" as a full yid. It's as if they stood together with the jewish nation 3300 years ago at Mount Sinai and accepted the Torah with all their Jewish brothers and sisters.

Two questions:

1. If born to a Jewish mother...does that mean an observant Jewish mother or simply hereditary?

2. "Kosher dunk?" Is that sort of like a baptism (please forgive my ignorance by using that term)?

Just curious.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:05 AM
 
3,942 posts, read 3,337,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullback32 View Post
Two questions:

1. If born to a Jewish mother...does that mean an observant Jewish mother or simply hereditary?

2. "Kosher dunk?" Is that sort of like a baptism (please forgive my ignorance by using that term)?

Just curious.
Those are excellent questions, both of them.

1. It does not matter if the mother is observant or not. Jews born of Jewish mothers are Jewish (these days we like to also double check that the grandmother was also Jewish), even if they never step foot in a synagogue, eat non-kosher food every day and regularly violate the Shabbos. The same does not apply to converts, though. A convert must accept and practice all applicable Torah mitzvahs to be considered a Jew.

2, Yes, a "kosher dunk" is kind of like a baptism (from what I hear - I can't say I've ever attended a baptism). Hmmm, I wonder where the Baptists got the same idea?
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:08 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,424,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
This subject seems to come up in a lot of different threads, so I figured a single thread could put the subject to rest. Who is considered to be Jewish?
1. Born of a Jewish mother, or...
2. Not born of a Jewish mother, but had an appropriate halachic conversion (a conversion is only considered valid if the convert fully accepts and agrees to practice all 613 mitzvos)
3. Must accept Rambam's 13 Principles of Jewish faith in it's entirety.
4. Must NOT accept Jesus in any way shape or form (this is covered in Rambam's 13 Principles, but i thought I'd point it out for clarity)

How is a typical conversion done?
1. Potential convert goes to a Torah Observant rabbi and expresses interest in becoming Jewish.
2. Rabbi tries to dissuade potential convert. Why would anybody want to convert to Judaism, when they have a perfectly valid route to Olam Haba (the world to come) by simply following the 7 Noahide Laws?
3. If potential convert is sincere and persists in his desire to convert, rabbi will connect him to somebody willing to "sponsor" this potential conversion.
4. Sponsor spends anywhere from 2-5 years on average helping potential convert works his way through all the necessary considerations to converting
5. Once sponsor believes the person is ready for conversion, a "beis din," which is a panel of three Torah Observant Jewish judges, meets with individual and tests the individual on his/her sincerity and jewish knowledge.
6. If not ready, keep working on it.
7. If deemed ready, a trip to the mikvah for a kosher dunk, and boom, their non-Jewish soul is discarded and the person is "re-born" as a full yid. It's as if they stood together with the jewish nation 3300 years ago at Mount Sinai and accepted the Torah with all their Jewish brothers and sisters.


Wrong

Only orthodox do not allow for non orthodox conversions. There are others movements in Judaism and they perform conversions.

There are Conservative, reconstructionist, reform conversions that are halachally done are 100% Jewish.

Orthodox is not the only way to be Jewish.

To convert to Judaism halachally:

1. Study with a Rabbi usually for a period of not less then a year.
2. Go before a Beit Din of 3 Rabbis.
3. Immersion in a mikvah for men and women.
4. Circumcision
5. Hatafat Dam Brit for a men if not circumcised.


Flipflop, I don't intend to argue with you as I understand from your orthodox perspective you don't consider that valid.

So I do not intend to argue about this just to let you know that orthodox is not the only way to become Jewish.

Orthodox don't accept anything less then orthodox conversions. Yet if a conversion is done halachally under the Conservative, reform or reconstructionist, movements they are accepted by each of the movements.

These movements are not going to go away in fact they are in the majority and orthodoxy is the minority.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
3,334 posts, read 5,259,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
There are Conservative, reconstructionist, reform conversions that are halachally done are 100% Jewish.
You know, I just heard of another movement yesterday. I was watching "The Big Bang Theory" (hilarious TV show) and decided to read about Mayim Bialik (fascinating person - very accomplished). The article I read about her said she was Reform, but moved to "Conservadox." I had never heard that term before. Sorry, I don't mean to butt in on Jewish threads, but I just find Jewish people and your culture very interesting. Thanks for indulging me.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:21 AM
 
3,942 posts, read 3,337,959 times
Reputation: 1246
Quote:
Orthodox don't accept anything less then orthodox conversions. Yet if a conversion is done halachally under the Conservative, reform or reconstructionist, movements they are accepted by each of the movements.
My inclination is to take this off line with you, as I want to be careful not to make a chilul hashem. However, I think it's important for others to understand this subject.

If one converts Reform, then pretty much only the Reform will accept that as a valid conversion. If one converts Conservative, then both Reform and Conservative will accept it as valid. If one converts Orthodox, ALL Jews accept the conversion as valid. So my points above are referring to a universally accepted conversion. Anything short of that has an asterick next to the word "convert." Kind of looks like this: *convert.

Quote:
These movements are not going to go away in fact they are in the majority and orthodoxy is the minority.
Partially true statements. Orthodoxy is indeed in the minority. But all statistical analysis clearly demonstrate that the ONLY Jewish movement still increasing in numbers is the orthodox, and like jewish history shows again and again, those who seek to reform Judaism are able to last a few generations at most. Sadly, due to interfaith marriage, tiny birth rates and general indifference, all non-Orthodox movements are shrinking at a rate that illicits the word "holocaust."

Feel free to look at this link below if you want to see the statistics I'm referring to:

Will Your Grandchildren Be Jewish?

The good news, of course, is that there is always time to do t'shuvah.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:27 AM
 
3,942 posts, read 3,337,959 times
Reputation: 1246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullback32 View Post
You know, I just heard of another movement yesterday. I was watching "The Big Bang Theory" (hilarious TV show) and decided to read about Mayim Bialik (fascinating person - very accomplished). The article I read about her said she was Reform, but moved to "Conservadox." I had never heard that term before. Sorry, I don't mean to butt in on Jewish threads, but I just find Jewish people and your culture very interesting. Thanks for indulging me.
Nice to have you in the thread. You ask good questions, Fullback.

Conservadox is not an official movement. It's really just a way of describing a Conservative Jew who for some reason is willing to follow many of the Torah's proscribed commandments, but is unwilling to define himself as a Torah Observant Jew. If BrooklynDad pops his head in this thread, he may be able to explain this term a little bit better, as I think it's a term that might describe him.

I know my grandfather called himself Conservadox. He prayed in a minyan (a group of no less than 10 men) three times every day. He kept a kosher home (but ate non-kosher out of the home). He closed the retail store he owned on Shabbos, but still drove to shul that day. And so on. To me, it looks like a bunch of confusing half-observances. But I know BrooklynDad feels as if there are valid Torah "exceptions' that allow this behavior.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:28 AM
 
949 posts, read 878,877 times
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If you have faith in Christ you are child of Abraham (Romans 4). A true Jew is not just one that obeys the commands..but rather one that has faith. Abraham believed the promise--and we are made his children by believing in the Messiah that fulfills it.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:29 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,424,051 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullback32 View Post
You know, I just heard of another movement yesterday. I was watching "The Big Bang Theory" (hilarious TV show) and decided to read about Mayim Bialik (fascinating person - very accomplished). The article I read about her said she was Reform, but moved to "Conservadox." I had never heard that term before.

I think people who grew up in Reform often become more observant. Even in the reform movement there are synagogues that are moving towards the traditional.

It is funny though that in my area the reform temple is the leader in adult learning and the more traditional movements are not.

I love the Big Bang Theory and I especially like Mayim Bialik. She is very accomplished!
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:30 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,424,051 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
My inclination is to take this off line with you, as I want to be careful not to make a chilul hashem. However, I think it's important for others to understand this subject.

If one converts Reform, then pretty much only the Reform will accept that as a valid conversion. If one converts Conservative, then both Reform and Conservative will accept it as valid. If one converts Orthodox, ALL Jews accept the conversion as valid. So my points above are referring to a universally accepted conversion. Anything short of that has an asterick next to the word "convert." Kind of looks like this: *convert.



Partially true statements. Orthodoxy is indeed in the minority. But all statistical analysis clearly demonstrate that the ONLY Jewish movement still increasing in numbers is the orthodox, and like jewish history shows again and again, those who seek to reform Judaism are able to last a few generations at most. Sadly, due to interfaith marriage, tiny birth rates and general indifference, all non-Orthodox movements are shrinking at a rate that illicits the word "holocaust."

Feel free to look at this link below if you want to see the statistics I'm referring to:

Will Your Grandchildren Be Jewish?

The good news, of course, is that there is always time to do t'shuvah.

No need because I have already said it is not open for discussion as far as I am concerned.
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