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The purpose of Torah study is to put it into practice in our daily life. Reading and arguing are not the point. Changing how we live our lives is the point.
I beg to differ...
...The traditional mode of Jewish study maintains an emphasis on dialogue and disagreement. Jews often study in havruta — in pairs — with each member of the havruta challenging and asking questions of the other. A person who walks into a traditional beit midrash is struck immediately by the noise level — havrutot (plural of havruta) read the text aloud and often argue at some volume, pushing one another to come to a better understanding of the text at hand...
...Regardless of what one chooses to study, the emphasis on questioning and dialogue marks the process of talmud torah or sacred Jewish learning. While it is certainly possible to study on one’s own, studying with a partner or in a group facilitates this questioning process....
...The traditional mode of Jewish study maintains an emphasis on dialogue and disagreement. Jews often study in havruta — in pairs — with each member of the havruta challenging and asking questions of the other. A person who walks into a traditional beit midrash is struck immediately by the noise level — havrutot (plural of havruta) read the text aloud and often argue at some volume, pushing one another to come to a better understanding of the text at hand...
...Regardless of what one chooses to study, the emphasis on questioning and dialogue marks the process of talmud torah or sacred Jewish learning. While it is certainly possible to study on one’s own, studying with a partner or in a group facilitates this questioning process....
FWIW: Keep in mind that you are having a discussion basically with a 5th grader ( or a person who has been following Chassidic Orthodoxy for only around five years ). Thus you're going to get responses based on rote. She knows your response is correct as she is the student of one or more teachers. You, on the other hand are educating yourself at a level she is not at yet and are in certain ways reading too far ahead as your second person is a book and not a person.
What you call an argument is usually a loud heated discussion in an attempt to understand how and why a certain part of the Torah came to be understood in a certain manner and thus followed in that manner.
Regardless of what one chooses to study, the emphasis on questioning and dialogue marks the process of talmud torah or sacred Jewish learning. While it is certainly possible to study on one’s own, studying with a partner or in a group facilitates this questioning process....
The point of Torah study, including discussion, is to put it into practice. For instance, your post is about what goes on in a beis midrash [House of study]. Now that you have learned that, how often do you go to a beis midrash? How many hours a week do you spend in the beis midrash learning in discussion with students and teachers?
Learning Torah is pointless and does not lead to wisdom unless it is put into practice.
"The essential purpose of Torah is deed... the principle purpose of wisdom is [its final expression in actual] deed. . . . And primacy is granted not to the expounding of a law but to its actual fulfillment. "
The purpose of Torah study is to change our actions, t o put it into practice what we learn. If a person has no interest in putting into practice what they learn, but only studies to show off or argue or debate, that is self aggrandizement for self serving motives.
The quality of a person's Torah study, learning, wisdom, and advancement to higher levels of learning is reliant on putting into practice what we learn.
If a Jew does not put into practice what he learns, his learning stagnates and he does not progress or advance.
The more we put into practice what we learn, the more insights we are given.
Wisdom does not come from learning by itself, but by putting into action what we learn.
In the prophets, we read about the Jews keeping certain laws such as keeping the sabbath. But the torah text never explains what constitutes "work" which the prophets indicate the people did not do on the sabbath. Clearly, they had a set of rules about what they could and couldn't do.
There is no contradiction. The torah speaks of people born as Jews and people who become via a process. A side note -- if the only thing the torah talked about was circumcision, then how would woman become Jewish?
Not true at all. Do you even know any Jews (of any sort)? You shouldn't make claims to a Jew if you know nothing of Judaism. And what's "mishraim"?
I think he is trying to say Mizarchim - jews from the middle eastern/arab countries
FWIW: Keep in mind that you are having a discussion basically with a 5th grader ( or a person who has been following Chassidic Orthodoxy for only around five years ). Thus you're going to get responses based on rote. She knows your response is correct as she is the student of one or more teachers. You, on the other hand are educating yourself at a level she is not at yet and are in certain ways reading too far ahead as your second person is a book and not a person.
What you call an argument is usually a loud heated discussion in an attempt to understand how and why a certain part of the Torah came to be understood in a certain manner and thus followed in that manner.
I didn't mean "beg to differ" in a bad way...I was just trying to show that argumentation is the Jewish way to obtain truth rather than settling...I've been trying to find out who the Rabbi was that was quoted by Rabbi Eli Wolf in his "Talmud for Beginners" video tutorials that said, "If the answer comes to easily, then it is not the correct answer." and "Truth cannot be arrived at without argumentation...One must examine, dig, turn over, examine, turn over some more, dig some more, etc", without listening to the video again...
The point of Torah study, including discussion, is to put it into practice. For instance, your post is about what goes on in a beis midrash [House of study]. Now that you have learned that, how often do you go to a beis midrash? How many hours a week do you spend in the beis midrash learning in discussion with students and teachers?
Learning Torah is pointless and does not lead to wisdom unless it is put into practice.
"The essential purpose of Torah is deed... the principle purpose of wisdom is [its final expression in actual] deed. . . . And primacy is granted not to the expounding of a law but to its actual fulfillment. "
The purpose of Torah study is to change our actions, t o put it into practice what we learn. If a person has no interest in putting into practice what they learn, but only studies to show off or argue or debate, that is self aggrandizement for self serving motives.
The quality of a person's Torah study, learning, wisdom, and advancement to higher levels of learning is reliant on putting into practice what we learn.
If a Jew does not put into practice what he learns, his learning stagnates and he does not progress or advance.
The more we put into practice what we learn, the more insights we are given.
Wisdom does not come from learning by itself, but by putting into action what we learn.
That sounds very "Christian"...How would you explain a person who is FFB?...Has he learned everything?...After all, he's had 20 years to learn and he puts everything into practice...According to what you are stating here is that he would no longer need to attend a Beit Midrash, he's already learned everything and is currently putting all of it into practice...When does one discontinue attending a Beit Midrash?...When does one no longer need to study Torah?...Why does a Rabbi continue to study Torah?...
[b]]...Has he learned everything?...After all, he's had 20 years to learn and he puts everything into practice...According to what you are stating here is that he would no longer need to attend a Beit Midrash, he's already learned everything and is currently putting all of it into practice...When does one discontinue attending a Beit Midrash?...When does one no longer need to study Torah?...Why does a Rabbi continue to study Torah?...
Has he learned everything?..
No because that is not possible. We learn, and we review what we have learned. Over and over and over. AND PUT IT INTO PRACTICE.
....learned everything and is currently putting all of it into practice...
Not possible. Learning goes on forever, and so does reviewing what we already know. AND SO DOES PUTTING IT INTO PRACTICE
When does one discontinue attending a Beit Midrash?...
Never. AND PUTTING IT INTO PRACTICE NEVER STOPS EITHER
When does one no longer need to study Torah?...
Never. It is a daily obligation. AS IS PUTTING IT INTO PRACTICE
Why does a Rabbi continue to study Torah?...
Because learning never stops. NEITHER DOES PUTTING IT INTO PRACTICE
This ONLY happens if we put into practice what we learn. Study by itself is not enough and if a person has no intention of putting into practice what he learns, then his motives are self serving.
The Jewish home and the Jewish life has three pillars: Torah study, mitzvot, prayer. That is we learn Torah, we put into practice what we learn, and we pray to Hashem.
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