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Old 01-23-2018, 04:15 PM
 
Location: NJ
2,675 posts, read 1,262,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kavalier View Post
BUT....there are "Jews" who claim they're "atheists" at the same time...but they are JEWS.


As I said I am sorry but this whole thing is too cloudy and...I just don't want to get into trouble so I'll leave it at that.
The problem is one of (among other things) nomenclature. A person's status a Jew under Jewish law (bound by Jewish rules, and subject to penalties for infraction, were this a time of a theocracy and religious courts) is not a function of that person's individual beliefs. So someone who has a Jewish mother and who professes to be an atheist is still a Jew under Jewish law. Someone who does NOT have a Jewish mother and says "I believe in Jewish law and Judaism" is NOT a Jew unless s/he goes through a conversion process acceptable to the Jewish community. Once that is done. that person is as 100% Jewish as anyone born to a Jewish mother.

 
Old 01-23-2018, 05:24 PM
 
621 posts, read 310,782 times
Reputation: 900
Meanwhile, none of this bears on the validity (or question thereon) of what Hannibal Flavius posted. Much of what he posts is normative orthodox belief. Some, perhaps, is within a diverse collection of varying orthodox beliefs. There also may be expressions of his that are farther out than that. Which of those descriptions applies best to any of his posts is best directed to competent rabbinical authority. On this site, I doubt that you will find anyone who comes even close to this description other than rosends, who, in addition to being probably the only rabbi posting here, seems to me to be particularly careful not to attribute his own outlook to all of orthodox Judaism. In other words, IMO you can trust him to state the limitations of any of his pronouncements when necessary.

What Hannibal Flavius or anyone else states on this forum about his or her status as a Jew does nothing to confirm the validity of his or her post.
 
Old 01-24-2018, 06:34 AM
 
584 posts, read 597,248 times
Reputation: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben Shunamit View Post

What ... anyone ... states on this forum about his or her status as a Jew does nothing to confirm the validity of his or her post.
So I could offer a position and support it with reams of rabbinic scholarship and that would do nothing?

What a remarkably thoughtless - even stupid - statement.
 
Old 01-24-2018, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,126 posts, read 10,426,638 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kavalier View Post
Are you Jewish?
No
 
Old 01-24-2018, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,126 posts, read 10,426,638 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kavalier View Post
What you said appears to be your opinion. Therefore I am curious from what point of view you've taken such an opinion. It's a sort of "Jewish Supremacist" view.


I don't know where I stand on it. I'm trying to be a Christian; I'm trying to be a real, true Christian, and therefore my religion (I believe - I have some studying to catch up on) says Jews play an important role.


Though I am not talking about some Gentile who takes up the Jewish religion - I'm talking about those who actually have Jewish blood.


But you didn't answer my question. Why not?
A real true Christian was a convert to Judaism, but just before the Jewish war and certainly after the Jewish war, Gentiles were not brave enough to continue in the 7 feast days and Sabbaths of God. I can't say that I blame them but I would have liked to think that I was brave enough.


Because Solomon's pagan wives led him to sin, God took 10 tribes and gave them to the very first king of Israel opposite the kingdom of Judah. Both kingdoms were to continue following God, but Jeroboam knew he would lose his kingdom if he let his people keep the Sabbaths and feasts of God, and so they invented their own, and they adopted what Christians call Christmas and Easter today, and for these sins, God ended their kingdom. God had the king of Assyria come and take them from their houses after they called the Torah a strange thing, and this king brought new people from Egypt and Babylon to live in the same houses of the ten lost tribes. One priests was then brought back to teach these so called New Israelites the ways of the God of that land, unfortunately, the priest brought back was a pagan Israeli priests who had become a gentile by his own choice. These New Samaritans now claimed that they were the new Israel for 700 years until we see that woman at the well lying through her teeth saying,'' Our father Jacob built this well.''


The Samaritan claimed to be Israel when it was a benefit, but when it wasn't, they said,'' The king of Assyria took us from our land and planted us next to these Jews.''


Then Jesus came trying to add Gentiles to the nation through Gentiles converting to Judaism. But when it became a dangerous thing to follow the ways of the Jews, they went back to their former religion, and then came Constantine making the laws of God illegal to keep, and making the Jew a sub human in the eyes of the people. Constantine knew exactly what Jeroboam had known. If all the people of Rome started converting to Judaism and then to make pilgrimage after pilgrimage to keep the feasts of God, then Rome would no doubt lose it's power and Jerusalem would have become the capitol of the world where the law would have proceeded from Jerusalem instead of Rome.


So all those Gentiles who had converted to Judaism were killed or died out, and Judah is left alone being the only people who followed the religion of God all these 2000 years.


Christianity today is a Babylonian religion whose members fight against the ways of God and the people who keep the ways of God.


Jeroboam's Idolatry
25Then Jeroboam built Shechem in the hill country of Ephraim, and lived there. And he went out from there and built Penuel. 26Jeroboam said in his heart, "Now the kingdom will return to the house of David. 27"If this people go up to offer sacrifices in the house of the LORD at Jerusalem, then the heart of this people will return to their lord, even to Rehoboam king of Judah; and they will kill me and return to Rehoboam king of Judah."…


Constantine began in Passover, Shavuot and Sukkot, but he knew he had to turn the people away from Jerusalem and Judah.


Then came Mohammed in the same religion as the Samaritans who were taught the religion of the ten tribes where they also waited upon a prophet, and Mohammed came in Passover, Shavuot and Sukkot, but the Jews would not accept Mohammed and so he did as Jeroboam had done, and just as Christianity had done for the same exact reasons and now there were two religions trying to stop people from keeping the commandments of God.


Jewish Supremacist? LOL.




If a person chooses to only follow the God of Israel and his commandments, people say that he is following Jewish ways just because it so happens that the Jews are the only people who follow God, but they are not Jewish ways, they are ways of God, the only God.


But yeah, all the prophets agree about what happens in the end when God comes to judge the world in how they have treated the people who followed his ways, and there is no greater example of a people being persecuted and killed over so many thousands of years because of their sin of refusing to assimilate to the ways of the world.


People say what they will say, but what they do with their hands speak much louder than anything coming out of their mouth, if you are a lawless person who keeps the Sabbaths, feasts, traditions, and rituals of a God that is not the God of the bible, that is called being a pagan. God brought Israel out of Egypt but when they built that golden calf, they were found in adultery against God for involving themselves in the ways of other Gods, and God's name is jealous. Those people came to that mountain to get married and some of his brides were committing adultery even at the foot of the mountain.


Everyone has to choose, and if you choose the ways of God, nobody is going to thank you for it, and no Christian will ever be your friend again, they will hate you and call you a devil. But that is the choice, and it seems, the chosen were chosen to be hated by the whole world until a day came that the world could wipe them out.


If God is truly a God of Justice, then what the prophets say is true justice. The people of God who keep his ways have been hated, tortured and killed for all these years since they were a people, and they were being killed for doing what God demanded them to do. You can pretty much name any prophet and God will choose Judah and Jerusalem every single time and he is coming to fight for Judah, and then to judge every person and every nation who fights against Jerusalem and Judah. Tell all your friends and neighbors that you are now going to choose the ways of God and see what happens.
 
Old 01-24-2018, 03:29 PM
 
621 posts, read 310,782 times
Reputation: 900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule View Post
So I could offer a position and support it with reams of rabbinic scholarship and that would do nothing?

What a remarkably thoughtless - even stupid - statement.
What a remarkably thoughtless - even stupid - statement!

What I said was "What Hannibal Flavius or anyone else states on this forum about his or her status as a Jew does nothing to confirm the validity of his or her post."

Post more after you learn how to read. Or maybe even only after you learn how to think.

Last edited by ben Shunamit; 01-24-2018 at 03:32 PM.. Reason: "Or maybe even only after you learn how to think."
 
Old 01-24-2018, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,126 posts, read 10,426,638 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben Shunamit View Post

What I said was "What Hannibal Flavius or anyone else states on this forum about his or her status as a Jew does nothing to confirm the validity of his or her post."





I do believe this can only be true, The only witness is the word of God and he knows who knows him, the only thing a man can brag in is knowing God. I have went from one religion to the next until I realized how simple the word of God was. I grew up with all these pre conceived ideas of people trying to insert themselves into the religion of God, and that is what Christianity does. The Christianity today didn't exist till after the fall of Jerusalem. Gentiles no longer converted to Judaism out of fear and dread.


The law and the prophets stand alone, and nothing even comes close to the law and the prophets and if a person cannot speak by the law and the prophets, he shouldn't even open his mouth.


Now to The Christians, I know something about being a Gentile and what I know is shocking, things a Jew WISHED he could achieve and cannot. That spirit of Elijah is not sent to a Jew ya know, and there has never been a greater promise to a person at any time, anywhere that is greater than the promise that God gives a Gentile, and a Jew can't even run in the race for certain awards.

THANK GOD that I was born a Gentile because I have so many options and so many wonderful and great promises that are not even offered to the Jew.
 
Old 01-26-2018, 10:35 AM
 
29,531 posts, read 9,700,562 times
Reputation: 3466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kavalier View Post
This might have been asked here before but I am not going through hundreds of pages.

Are Jews a "religion" or a "race/ethnicity"?
Asked and answered I think...

"most definitions of Jewishness go by those actively practicing Judaism"

What defines a Jew?

My definition too, and I'm always a little perplexed by someone who claims to be Jewish as if it isn't all about religion. If you don't believe in or practice Judaism, you are no more a Jew than I am a Catholic even though I don't believe or practice Catholicism...

My parents were born and raised in a country dominated by the Catholic religion. Accordingly I was raised a Catholic, but I am no more Catholic today than I am a unicorn, regardless where my mother and father were born or what my mother and father believed.
 
Old 01-26-2018, 04:34 PM
 
22,149 posts, read 19,198,797 times
Reputation: 18268
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Asked and answered I think...

"most definitions of Jewishness go by those actively practicing Judaism"

What defines a Jew?

My definition too, and I'm always a little perplexed by someone who claims to be Jewish as if it isn't all about religion. If you don't believe in or practice Judaism, you are no more a Jew than I am a Catholic even though I don't believe or practice Catholicism...

My parents were born and raised in a country dominated by the Catholic religion. Accordingly I was raised a Catholic, but I am no more Catholic today than I am a unicorn, regardless where my mother and father were born or what my mother and father believed.
that is not correct (bold statement above)

a person is Jewish if they are born to a mother who is Jewish
OR if they have undergone a conversion that is valid under Jewish law.
 
Old 01-27-2018, 09:44 AM
 
29,531 posts, read 9,700,562 times
Reputation: 3466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
that is not correct (bold statement above)

a person is Jewish if they are born to a mother who is Jewish
OR if they have undergone a conversion that is valid under Jewish law.
According to who/what exactly?

I ask because if true, then am I a Catholic because I was born to a mother who is Catholic?

I know many a Catholic who would like to think so, but I think I am Catholic and/or Jewish if I CHOOSE to be a follower and/or practitioner of Catholicism and/or Judaism. In some cases it seems you don't even really need to be a practitioner to consider yourself a follower of these faiths (there are good Catholics and not so good Catholics for example), but that's perhaps another topic for another day.

We are who we are in these regards because of what we THINK we are, and/or what we CHOOSE to believe.
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