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Old 07-09-2012, 08:39 AM
 
556 posts, read 214,575 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Please feel free not to answer this very personal question, Jayhawker, but did you grow up Chrstian?
No.


Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
I have never met a Jew in my entire life, reform, C or O, who thought the Chrstian Bible was a reasonable translation of the Torah.
Effective translation requires considerable linguistic skill informed by continuing scholarship. Neither Jews nor Christians have a monopoly on these prerequisites. I think the term "Christian Bible" when applied to any and all non-Jewish renditions of the books of the Tanakh is grossly ignorant and prejudical at best. Please suggest where (for example) the NSRV translation is unreasonable when compared to the JPS.

 
Old 07-09-2012, 10:09 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 2,419,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule View Post
Actually, I'm more interest in my wife and I taking a nice bus ride. We also maintain an overseas 'membership' in a Reform Synagogue is Israel, and it will be nice to visit them again. (You're more than welcome to join us!)

L'Shalom,

JS

One day I will also take that bus ride...... Sighs longingly..
 
Old 07-09-2012, 10:12 AM
 
556 posts, read 214,575 times
Reputation: 113
Back on topic: today's BAR offering has a reasonably decent article on Searching for the Better Text.
 
Old 07-09-2012, 11:37 AM
 
556 posts, read 214,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
I have never met a Jew ... who thought the Chrstian Bible was a reasonable translation of the Torah.
Again: What is unreasonable about the NSRV translation?
 
Old 07-09-2012, 11:51 AM
 
2,948 posts, read 1,104,029 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule View Post
Again: What is unreasonable about the NSRV translation?
Well, for starters:

1. It was translated by goyim. And goyim believe Yushke is moschiach. So there's not one ounce of credibility in the tranlaters before a single word is translated.
2. The translaters did not have access to nor were they interested in (nor did they accept the validity of) the Oral Torah. Without the benefit of the Oral Torah, the written Torah is useless and ripe for agenda and mistranslation.
3. The NSRV openly admits it alters the meanings of certain passages to arbitrarily add gender egalitarianism. So it immediately loses the spirit from which it was written when it admits to altering the translations to account for liberal groups who seek to change Torah.
4. It has different versions for Catholics and Protestants. Jews recognize only one Torah, and any Jew who says there is more than one Torah is a heretic.
5. In many areas the NSRV admits that it chose to translate the KJV instead of the original Hebrew text. In doing so, the NSRV becomes just another in a long line of "translations of a translation."

I'm shocked that a Jew could ask me what's wrong with the NSRV. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps just saying the Torah itself is the best source on all matters Torah related? I assume you can't translate Hebrew properly, but don't you have access to a rabbi who can? Not a Chrstian document, but a real Jewish rabbi, or the Torah itself? Why go through a Chrstian translation of a translation?
 
Old 07-09-2012, 12:08 PM
 
556 posts, read 214,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Well, for starters:

1. It was translated by goyim.
Do you know what bigotry is?

Do you know the names or credentials of those who contributed to the NSRV translation of the books of the Torah?
Do you know their religious affiliations?
Are you making baseless assertions about their capabilities or about their integrity?

In my opinion, there is something deeply disturbing, extremely disgusting, and pervasively non-Jewish about your attitude.
 
Old 07-09-2012, 12:30 PM
 
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Quote:
In my opinion, there is something deeply disturbing, extremely disgusting, and pervasively non-Jewish about your attitude.
While you have every right to say that, I'm not convinced outside of deeply liberal circles you'd find much support for your assertion.

Let me give you a moshel. Just because somebody is an expert in physics does not automatically make them an expert in Chemistry, no matter how brilliant they may be in physics. Trusting a goy to translate your bible, to the exclusion of having a Jew do it, is like hiring the most brillinat auto mechanic in the world to be your personal chef. If you need a personal chef, wouldn't you just hire somebody trained as a chef? And even more so, if you need a good translation of a Jewish bible, wouldn't you want a classicly trained rabbi to do that for you? Why would you hire a Chrstian theologian to do it (and not expect, naturally, that some of his Chrstian biases might leak into the translation)?
 
Old 07-09-2012, 12:40 PM
 
556 posts, read 214,575 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
While you have every right to say that, I'm not convinced outside of deeply liberal circles you'd find much support for your assertion.
You denigrate a translation because - first and foremost - it was [presumably] done by 'goyim.' I stand by my evaluation.
 
Old 07-09-2012, 12:47 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 2,419,965 times
Reputation: 779
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
While you have every right to say that, I'm not convinced outside of deeply liberal circles you'd find much support for your assertion.

Let me give you a moshel. Just because somebody is an expert in physics does not automatically make them an expert in Chemistry, no matter how brilliant they may be in physics. Trusting a goy to translate your bible, to the exclusion of having a Jew do it, is like hiring the most brillinat auto mechanic in the world to be your personal chef. If you need a personal chef, wouldn't you just hire somebody trained as a chef? And even more so, if you need a good translation of a Jewish bible, wouldn't you want a classicly trained rabbi to do that for you? Why would you hire a Chrstian theologian to do it (and not expect, naturally, that some of his Chrstian biases might leak into the translation)?

First off your use of the word goy and goyim are intentionally bigoted. There are many scholars that are not attached to evangelical ( nor need to prove anything ) but mainstream Christianity who are scholars of the OT.

I look for Rabbinical scholarship but I don't discount all Christian scholarship just simply because they are Christian scholars.

I came across this website which has both Christian and Jewish response on the need for mutual understanding.

Institute for Christian & Jewish Studies | About Us History

Institute for Christian & Jewish Studies | Programs | National Jewish Scholars' Project | Dabru Emet


Institute for Christian & Jewish Studies | About Us

Institute for Christian & Jewish Studies | About Us
Comprised of Jews and Gentiles
 
Old 07-09-2012, 12:48 PM
 
2,948 posts, read 1,104,029 times
Reputation: 697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawker Soule View Post
You denigrate a translation because - first and foremost - it was [presumably] done by 'goyim.' I stand by my evaluation.
Like I said, I support your right to make that assertion. I just think your viewpoint is an extreme outlier, and that precious few Jews would be comfortable using a Chrstian translation of the Torah as a primary source, especially in light of the fact that there are many excellent Jewish translations of the Torah.
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