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One thing I should clarify for you, so you know what a typical religious Jew believes. We do not see "evangelical Christianity as a nefarious practice." Quite the contrary, we admire their fervent belief in the Al-Mighty, and we believe they 1,000% have a right to connect with Hashem in whatever manner they choose. It's only when they cross over into the dubious world of trying to convert Jews that we take issue.
cmforte, yes, I would say Chrstians are more tolerant than Jews when it comes to "switching team logos." From what I understand, it's not uncommon for Chrstians to switch denominations many times in their lives - sometimes out of a change in belief, and other times out of convenience. But in my experience in knowing many who have converted to Judaism, these former Chrstians in nearly every situation I have known have given up their family (being shunned), have given up their job (not being able to work on Saturdays), have given up their name (when doing an Orthodox conversion, the convert assumes a Hebrew name) and so on.
When the Jew converts to Chrstianity, entire communities mourn for the loss of that Jewish soul. You see, we Jews believe in the utter and total sanctity of the individual Jewish soul. Think back to last year when Israel swapped 1,000 jailed Arab terrorists in order to free one single Yid (Gilad Shalit) being held captive by the Palestinians. So you are correct, we have zero tolerance for the Jew who leaves their faith.
In all my years on this planet (and excluding the fairy land of anonymous internet boards), I have only known of one Jew who became a Chrstian. It happened 2 decades ago, and I still can only find the stomach to wisper about it, as it's such a distasteful thing. I find it easier to think of friends who have committed suicide than to think of a friend who became a Chrstian. In fact, by Jewish law, a Jew is required to allow himself to killed before submitting to a conversion to any idol worshipping religion.
Please do not misunderstand what I'm saying. I have exactly zero distaste for Chrstians practicing Chrstianity. In fact, I admire those who do it with faith and conviction. Nail your man-god up to a cross and tattoo him on your forehead. Awesome! It's only the proselytizing to Jews that literaly makes me sick to my stomach.
But that's your opinion. Your belief. We christians have different beliefs and opinions. What makes your's more true than ours'? And this is a free country, unless you want to throw out the First Amendment, or throw it out simply as it concerns "prosylitizing" to jews. That idea would make my stomach sick!! And you seem to think that you can look into people's hearts and minds and automatically know their true intentions.
The 144,000 is in reference to the number of Jews who are prophesized as accepting Christ after the rapture and during the 7 year tribulation before the second coming of Christ.
That's just a watered down way to say:
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that number refers to 144,000 Jews in end times who will forcefully be converted to Chrstianity, while millions of others Jews die by the Chrstian sword
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Not in our opinion.
cmforte, I fail to see how the opinion of the one from the religion promising mass genocide is the more relevant opinion. Since I belong to the faith being threatened with genocide, I think a neutral observer would defer to mine while they investigated why some (many?) Chrstians claim that in future times they will murder all of world Jewery, save for a "chosen" 144,000 who violate their own doctrine in order to save their lives.
cmforte, I fail to see how the opinion of the one from the religion promising mass genocide is the more relevant opinion. Since I belong to the faith being threatened with genocide, I think a neutral observer would defer to mine while they investigated why some (many?) Chrstians claim that in future times they will murder all of world Jewery, save for a "chosen" 144,000 who violate their own doctrine in order to save their lives.
What christians (other than a few isolated loons) are threatening Jews with "mass genocide" today?
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Chrstians claim that in future times they will murder all of world Jewery,
Where in the world did you get this from? Many Evangelicals (I am not one) believe that some Jews will accept Jesus at the Second Coming, not be killed or forced to. There's a big difference.
Did you ever find yourself wondering why these groups specifically target Jews? Could it be that by getting the Jews to believe in Jesus, they are the only people that could truly legitimize the Chrstian faith? The fact that 100% of Jews reject Jesus and his teachings doesn't get under their missionary skin just a little bit?
And remember, the Jews have not asked any Chrstians to pray for their souls, much less murder their souls. What part of "thanks but no thanks" do these people not understand?
Did you ever find yourself wondering why these groups specifically target Jews? Could it be that by getting the Jews to believe in Jesus, they are the only people that could truly legitimize the Chrstian faith? The fact that 100% of Jews reject Jesus and his teachings doesn't get under their missionary skin just a little bit?
And remember, the Jews have not asked any Chrstians to pray for their souls, much less murder their souls. What part of "thanks but no thanks" do these people not understand?
Oh they don't just target you my friend...not at all. They started on us the minute they got here in 1492 and haven't stopped since. They started first with the sword, followed by the gun and then with re-education camps they called "Indian Schools." "Kill the Indian to save the man" was their motto. That is no joke; it actually was a motto that hung over the schools. Sort of has an "arbeit macht frei" ring to it doesn't it?
Last edited by Fullback32; 05-30-2012 at 02:51 PM..
Yeah, no kidding. But to theflipflop Jews are too special for it, more special than anyone else Evangelicals target.
Evangelicals also target Catholics!!
Except that Jews for Jesus and Messianic Jews and what ever don't necessarily fit the label of Evangelical.
Have any of you ever driven by a Jews for Buddhists temple? What about a Jews for Wiccan Temple? Of course you have not. But in my town, there are multiple Jews for Jesus churches. And why? Because the Chrstian missionary movement has specifically targeted the Jews and have organized to proselytize to this single community in ways so profoundly disturbing and so well funded and organized, that I can only come to the conclusion that it's the single most important focus to those who proselytize. And as a member of the community being victimized (it's like being religiously sodomized by my neighbors), I am standing up and saying enough! Knock it off. Pray however you want in your churches, but leave my fellow Jews alone. What you are doing is immoral, and from my persepctive, there's no way G-d could possibly approve of these dispicable practices of preying on the weak.
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What christians (other than a few isolated loons) are threatening Jews with "mass genocide" today?
So if the "end times" started tomorrow, per Chrstian dogma, and 144,000 Jews either converted on their own free will or forcefully, what happens to the other 12-14 million Jews in the world who do not survive? Who exactly is assisting their Facebook status change from "making breakfast pancakes" to "no longer in existence," if not for the Chrstians whose dogma it is in the first place to suddenly have 90+% of the Jews on earth die?
Honestly, I haven't decided what's a more imminent threat - evangelicals that target us (and others, I suppose), or assimilation. I used to vehemently oppose evangelicals, and still do, but I think assimilation is our true problem. Orthodox people like you have clearly resisted that, but to more secular Jews, it's an ongoing battle.
To answer your question, I think they truly believe that if we are not "saved" then we are going to hell, or so I've been told. I've had many concerned people try to tell me this, including (most recently) a Christian from Israel. I was the most surprised at this one. Being a former Christian, though, I can tell you that they preach much harder at Jews than they do at a Christian from another branch, at least that's been my experience.
I forgive the Christians that do it - but the Jews for Jesus? I really resent that organization.
Oh they don't just target you my friend...not at all. They started on us the minute they got here in 1492 and haven't stopped since.
Fullback, I feel for you. Your people is basically proof of what evil they are capable of. Frightening.
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Where in the world did you get this from? Many Evangelicals (I am not one) believe that some Jews will accept Jesus at the Second Coming, not be killed or forced to. There's a big difference.