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Old 05-30-2012, 09:22 AM
 
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So two examples have come to light in my world this week that have me wondering, has there been a renewed desire for Chrstian missionaries to infiltrate the Jewish community, seeking to convert and destroy precious Jewish souls?

Example 1: In Baltimore, MD, last week residents in the Park Heights and Pikesville areas began receiving visits by young, well-mannered individuals who are dressed to appear "orthodox" and try to engage homeowners in a "friendly dialogue" about Israel and the Jewish people, along with handing them a "gift for the Jewish People." If no one answers the door they will leave their packet on the doorstep. The packets are from a "prominent business man" named Tom Cantor, a man who was born Jewish, who claims his grandfather was an orthodox Rabbi, who converted to Christianity years ago, and has started a ministry called "Israel Restoration." This group focuses on proselytizing Jews.

They have just launched a multi-million dollar "Outreach Campaign" targeting Jewish communities along the East Coast. In less than one week nearly 10,000 homes in Northwest Baltimore will receive these packets that contain a high quality DVD, a booklet and a "personal message" from Tom Cantor to his Jewish brethren. Each packet costs approximatelty $2-$3, for an estimated cost of $30,000 being spent for zip codes 21215, 08, and 09, for phase one of the campaign. Cantor's group is partnering with local Baptist Churches in the distribution of this packet. It is expected that a follow-up campaign will take place later this summer with newly trained "outreach" workers contacting individuals on the streets, by phone and personal visitations.

This local campaign is just a part of a larger East Coast proselytizing campaign. As of last week, reports were coming in from communities in Brooklyn NY, Southern New Jersey and Boston MA.

Example 2: A young Jews for Jesus couple in Atlanta was "outed" this week after approaching several Orthodox rabbi's and expressing an interest in converting to Judaism. Luckily, Jews do not accept potential converts just because they ask. The process takes several years. This couple had even contacted the local Orthodox Jewish day school about enrolling their children. Based on on some correspondence that came to light this week, the truth is that they were trained by a local prominent Jews for Jesus preacher on how to infiltrate the Orthodox community, appearing to be sincere converts, in order to gain information that could eventually be brought back to the Jews for Jesus missionary movement to help them in their conversion campaigns against the Jews. They were instructed what clothes to wear, what words to use, and so on...

So what do you all think? Is religious conversion warfare fair play? We know from experience, that the Jews for Jesus prey on Jews with poor religious education. We also know that the movement is primarily funded and supported by the Southern Baptist movement. So is it OK for them to steal these precious Jewish sould for their own benefit?

 
Old 05-30-2012, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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I think that is called deception and no matter how you justify it, it is still deception. Are some Christians so unsure of their faith they can not be honest in their goals?
 
Old 05-30-2012, 10:06 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,740,529 times
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Since you asked what I think -

Trying to replace one set of ancient Bedouin myths with a slightly different, slightly younger, set of Bedouin myths seems pointless to me.

It would be like telling your kids there's no Santa Clause, but instead all of their presents came from a leprechaun. Why bother? Moses didn't exist, exodus didn't happen, and Jesus, if he existed at all, wasn't an important person in his time.
 
Old 05-30-2012, 11:34 AM
 
Location: NY
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It is all perspective...

To a Christian, this missionary work is to "save" Jewish souls. To a non Christian, it may appear they are trying to steal/destroy/mislead Jewish souls.

I cannot assume any individual's true motives, but a true Christian who believes he or she is acting in the Spirit of Christ is going to be moved to try and share and bring others to believing in Christ, because they believe it is the ONLY way to reach everlasting life with God. If the motives of these folks were pure in this regard, that is their motivation. Motivation doesn't always justify means either.
 
Old 05-30-2012, 12:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkered24 View Post
It is all perspective...

To a Christian, this missionary work is to "save" Jewish souls. To a non Christian, it may appear they are trying to steal/destroy/mislead Jewish souls.

I cannot assume any individual's true motives, but a true Christian who believes he or she is acting in the Spirit of Christ is going to be moved to try and share and bring others to believing in Christ, because they believe it is the ONLY way to reach everlasting life with God. If the motives of these folks were pure in this regard, that is their motivation. Motivation doesn't always justify means either.
Did you ever find yourself wondering why these groups specifically target Jews? Could it be that by getting the Jews to believe in Jesus, they are the only people that could truly legitimize the Chrstian faith? The fact that 100% of Jews reject Jesus and his teachings doesn't get under their missionary skin just a little bit?

And remember, the Jews have not asked any Chrstians to pray for their souls, much less murder their souls. What part of "thanks but no thanks" do these people not understand?
 
Old 05-30-2012, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Did you ever find yourself wondering why these groups specifically target Jews? Could it be that by getting the Jews to believe in Jesus, they are the only people that could truly legitimize the Chrstian faith? The fact that 100% of Jews reject Jesus and his teachings doesn't get under their missionary skin just a little bit?

And remember, the Jews have not asked any Chrstians to pray for their souls, much less murder their souls. What part of "thanks but no thanks" do these people not understand?
You may be onto something here. I don't think the OT can be justified unless Jews, who understand Hebrew and the inner workings of Semitic languages, find the OT to be the true translation of the Torah and Talmud.

For the NT to be true, Christianity has to show it was prophecised in the OT. For the OT to be true it has to be shown it is the Genuine, properly translated Torah and Talmud. Any of us non-Jews are very naive if we think we can understand the Torah better than even a school age Jew.

For Christianity to continue I think some Christians have come to the conclusion they have to get the Jews to agree with them.

Interesting thoughts. Actually the more a person understands Judaism, the more difficult it becomes to agree with Christianity. To offset this it will take Jews to agree that the Tauret was the the Groundwork for Christianity. It is becoming a necessity for some Christians to convert the Jews in order to hang onto their belief in Christianity.
 
Old 05-30-2012, 12:52 PM
 
Location: NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Did you ever find yourself wondering why these groups specifically target Jews? Could it be that by getting the Jews to believe in Jesus, they are the only people that could truly legitimize the Chrstian faith? The fact that 100% of Jews reject Jesus and his teachings doesn't get under their missionary skin just a little bit?
Generally, I do not think Christians evangelize to Jews in order to legitimize their own faith. Christianity is well established. Maybe there are individuals who feel a need... I dunno. I just don't see that as a common motivation.

I also do not see it getting under the skin of a Christian that Jews don't accept Jesus as the prophesized messiah (if, you are implying whether it gets missionaries upset or angry).

Quote:
And remember, the Jews have not asked any Chrstians to pray for their souls, much less murder their souls. What part of "thanks but no thanks" do these people not understand?
It goes back to how the Christians see eternal life. As an analogy, say you see someone you care about in the street, about to be murdered. You could go out there, confront the attacker, and save the individual. Or you could stay inside, and let them die. You go out there ready to confront the attacker, when the potential victim tells you "thanks but no thanks, I did not ask for your help, please go away." Do you turn your back, and let him get murdered? Or do you help anyway? That is how these Christians likely see it.

In a way, they do not understand because the BELIEVE there is only one way to heavan, and they cannot figure out why someone would chose another option.
 
Old 05-30-2012, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Southern California
1,435 posts, read 1,347,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Did you ever find yourself wondering why these groups specifically target Jews? Could it be that by getting the Jews to believe in Jesus, they are the only people that could truly legitimize the Chrstian faith? The fact that 100% of Jews reject Jesus and his teachings doesn't get under their missionary skin just a little bit?

And remember, the Jews have not asked any Chrstians to pray for their souls, much less murder their souls. What part of "thanks but no thanks" do these people not understand?
You speak for all Jews now? Did they elect you to be their leader? 100%? How is that possible when some converted to Catholicism? (oh, don't tell me...they were either fake Jews, or forced to convert, or brainwashed, right? ): https://www.google.com/search?source...0&aqi=g4&pbx=1

It's a free country. Why can't a christian try to preach the Gospel to Jews? Or did the Jews that anointed you their leader want to anull the First Amendment? Why are Jews off-limits to "prosylitizing"? How come you don't complain when a christian tries to convert a Wiccan or a Hindu? Why are Jews so special? And btw, Jesus, the Apostles, and the most of the early christians were Jews, so it wasn't always "100%".

Quote:
the Jews have not asked any Chrstians to pray for their souls, much less murder their souls.
Checkered24 is right. It's a matter of perspective. Christians don't think they are "murdering their souls". Most have good intentions. Why do you think so? Some christians truely believe that thery are "saving" them, just a they try to "save" Hindus, Wiccans, and atheists., etc...why do you get so offended?

Quote:
Did you ever find yourself wondering why these groups specifically target Jews?
Possibly because we were told to preach the Gospel to "all nations" with no directive to exclude Jews. Did the Apostles specifically target Jews? (Yes) Was that a problem for you?
 
Old 05-30-2012, 12:56 PM
 
Location: NY
9,072 posts, read 15,088,694 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You may be onto something here. I don't think the OT can be justified unless Jews, who understand Hebrew and the inner workings of Semitic languages, find the OT to be the true translation of the Torah and Talmud.

For the NT to be true, Christianity has to show it was prophecised in the OT. For the OT to be true it has to be shown it is the Genuine, properly translated Torah and Talmud. Any of us non-Jews are very naive if we think we can understand the Torah better than even a school age Jew.

For Christianity to continue I think some Christians have come to the conclusion they have to get the Jews to agree with them.

Interesting thoughts. Actually the more a person understands Judaism, the more difficult it becomes to agree with Christianity. To offset this it will take Jews to agree that the Tauret was the the Groundwork for Christianity. It is becoming a necessity for some Christians to convert the Jews in order to hang onto their belief in Christianity.
When the fundamentalist Christians are accepting the old testament being the innerent and literally true word of God through "faith", without even accepting any allegorical interpretation of any of it, then I don't see them needing any other actions to justify their beliefs.
 
Old 05-30-2012, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Rutherfordton,NC
14,683 posts, read 9,157,734 times
Reputation: 9821
My mom & I have this discussion all the time & the truth is that many Jewish people don't believe that Jesus was who he claimed to be. For those of the Christian faith it would be a big win for them to convert all OR as many Jews as they can. I guess if they can convert the Jewish people then other will see them as THE ONLY & only right religion. At least thats what they hope will happen.
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