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Old 09-07-2012, 04:52 PM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
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Hi all,

Can anyone briefly tell me what the difference is between Orthodox, Modern Orthodox, and Chassids are?

Shabbat Shalom!
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:12 PM
 
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Briefly? Ha ha!

If you want to google it, and cut and paste something, we can probably tell if the descriptions are good or not?
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:48 PM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
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Thanks. Ok, here's my take on it.

Modern Orthodox believes that it's important to be a light unto the nations, and interact in the secular world, while keeping their values. However, I know someone (from the internet) that is a female and states she is a Rabbi. I'm confused about this, as it does not seem consistent with the teachings that I have heard about Orthodoxy. I read on google that Modern Orthodoxy draws from the teachings of Rabbi Kook, who I really like as he was a fellow vegetarian and many of his other teachings (in my limited experience) make sense to me.

Chassids (I think) are part of the Haredi branch, are equally observant, but the one Chassid I knew was heavily into Kaballah. He told me that most are. One key mission is to reach out to Jews to help them become more observant.

I think that Orthodox Jews state that as far as integrating into the secular world, halacha comes first, and integration is secondary.

All are observant, and there is no room for putting a modern spin on halacha. Halacha is halacha.

Please correct any misunderstandings. This is just .00001 percent of the tip of the iceberg, I realize!

Thanks.
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Old 09-09-2012, 02:30 PM
 
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All of them are religiously observant. But the Chassids are ultra-orthodox (Haredim) and usually dress in clothing that sets them apart. This clothing is based on the clothing worn in Europe in the late 19th century approx.
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Old 09-10-2012, 01:50 PM
 
Location: The Port City is rising.
8,803 posts, read 10,714,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1+1=5 View Post
Thanks. Ok, here's my take on it.

Modern Orthodox believes that it's important to be a light unto the nations, and interact in the secular world, while keeping their values. However, I know someone (from the internet) that is a female and states she is a Rabbi. .
she's a "rabbah" and IIUC her smicha is from the Avi Weiss' Yeshiva.

Quote:
I'm confused about this, as it does not seem consistent with the teachings that I have heard about Orthodoxy..
Thats cause its from Open Orthodoxy, which is a minority within modern O, and has had some issues with mainstream modern O. Open O would insist that the nature of their halachic reasoning to get to the above result is still orthodox, and quite different from C reasoning.

Quote:
I read on google that Modern Orthodoxy draws from the teachings of Rabbi Kook, who I really like as he was a fellow vegetarian and many of his other teachings (in my limited experience) make sense to me..
as with most movements within Judaism, there are different influences. I wouldn't define Modern O by R Kook - though he was certainly influential on Modern O - he also had some influence beyond Modern O.

Quote:
Chassids (I think) are part of the Haredi branch, are equally observant, but the one Chassid I knew was heavily into Kaballah. He told me that most are. One key mission is to reach out to Jews to help them become more observant. .
Yes, historically all chassidic groups are based on the teachings of the Baal Shem Tov, who popularized Lurianic Kabbalah. However not all engage in outreach - AFAIK only Chabad and Bratslav are known for outreach. Most keep to themselves.

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I think that Orthodox Jews state that as far as integrating into the secular world, halacha comes first, and integration is secondary. .
I doubt any Modern O would state that they ever intentionally violate halacha. However WITHIN halacha, intergration is a positive good - which at least some haredim would question.

Quote:
All are observant, and there is no room for putting a modern spin on halacha. Halacha is halacha..
All those groups are very strongly committed to observance, and make it central to their Judaism, in a way that even CJ generally does not. However not all individuals are observant - there are certainly non shomer shabbos members of modern O shuls (though they may consider that kiruv - outreach) . Im not sure what you mean by a modern spin - while modern O generally does not (AFAICT) accept the notion of using halachic flexibility as a program to modernize Judaism, as CJ generally does, its not the case that halacha is halacha - there is a range of interpretation, and Modern O is often reluctant to accept the stricter interpretations that Haredim do.
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Old 09-11-2012, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Harrisburg, PA
2,338 posts, read 7,011,133 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1+1=5 View Post
Hi all,

Can anyone briefly tell me what the difference is between Orthodox, Modern Orthodox, and Chassids are?

Shabbat Shalom!
These groups all have differences in hashkafah (outlook) and history. But I will describe it from my own (layman's) terms.

Modern Orthodox believe strongly in "Torah U'Madda"; which is basically that you can be Torah observant (Orthodox), but still be learned in secular subjects and to some extent, secular society. Within Modern Orthodoxy there is a big spectrum of this involvement in the secular world. For example you have some Modern Orthodox Jews that don't wear a kippa/yarmulke daily (I believe Joe Lieberman is a Modern Orthodox Jew). They will have professions that my require study and a work environment that is decidedly non-Jewish. In many ways the bulk of American Orthodox Judaism of the 20th century was "Modern" in that many observant Jews who were members of Orthodox congregations proscribed to this type of lifestyle.

Chassidic Jews are of the opposite extreme; they believe in an insular lifestyle lived as apart and separate from non-Jews as possible. The Chassidim are all part of sub-sects, or dynasties that are all led by Rebbes (living or deceased) that were followers of the Baal Shem Tov. Historically, the Chassidim incorporated more mysticism into their Jewish practice...stressing a personal, emotional relationship with G-d as opposed to a more academic, scholarly approach to Torah. Today however, the Chassidim are more distinguished by their steadfast efforts to preserve the ways of their Eastern European ancestors; in custom, dress, and language. It is this strong dedication to preserving their unique culture and ways that make them very distinguishable from other Orthodox Jews.

Centrist (or just "plain") Orthodox Jews are the modern representatives of the Misnaggid, or non-Chassidic Orthodox Jews. While they are not as integrated in secular culture as Modern Orthodox Jews, they do not maintain a strong focus on living and dressing just as their ancestors did. In fact, Orthodox Judaism can be very progressive and unifying culturally in that Yeshivas, not family ancestry, defines outlook. Boys and men learn Torah and Talmud in the yeshiva for many, many years. They may also work as professionals as well, but will always wear a kippah, a beard perhaps, and be very mindful of rules involving touch and space with members of the opposite sex and non-Jews at all times. They may also dress more conservatively...always wearing long sleeves and neutral colors. Interestingly, Centrist Orthodoxy is able to thrive now mainly because of the increased religious tolerance that we have in America (where an employer may think twice about not hiring someone because of their kippah and beard) as well as the financial and moral support from other Modern Orthodox and non-Orthodox Jews who fund their yeshivas (and the men who learn in them full-time).
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:49 PM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
1,135 posts, read 1,433,045 times
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Thanks, everyone, for the interesting and informative discussion! Appreciate the information very much.
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Old 09-12-2012, 07:59 AM
 
3,962 posts, read 3,343,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissShona View Post
These groups all have differences in hashkafah (outlook) and history. But I will describe it from my own (layman's) terms.

Modern Orthodox believe strongly in "Torah U'Madda"; which is basically that you can be Torah observant (Orthodox), but still be learned in secular subjects and to some extent, secular society. Within Modern Orthodoxy there is a big spectrum of this involvement in the secular world. For example you have some Modern Orthodox Jews that don't wear a kippa/yarmulke daily (I believe Joe Lieberman is a Modern Orthodox Jew). They will have professions that my require study and a work environment that is decidedly non-Jewish. In many ways the bulk of American Orthodox Judaism of the 20th century was "Modern" in that many observant Jews who were members of Orthodox congregations proscribed to this type of lifestyle.

Chassidic Jews are of the opposite extreme; they believe in an insular lifestyle lived as apart and separate from non-Jews as possible. The Chassidim are all part of sub-sects, or dynasties that are all led by Rebbes (living or deceased) that were followers of the Baal Shem Tov. Historically, the Chassidim incorporated more mysticism into their Jewish practice...stressing a personal, emotional relationship with G-d as opposed to a more academic, scholarly approach to Torah. Today however, the Chassidim are more distinguished by their steadfast efforts to preserve the ways of their Eastern European ancestors; in custom, dress, and language. It is this strong dedication to preserving their unique culture and ways that make them very distinguishable from other Orthodox Jews.

Centrist (or just "plain") Orthodox Jews are the modern representatives of the Misnaggid, or non-Chassidic Orthodox Jews. While they are not as integrated in secular culture as Modern Orthodox Jews, they do not maintain a strong focus on living and dressing just as their ancestors did. In fact, Orthodox Judaism can be very progressive and unifying culturally in that Yeshivas, not family ancestry, defines outlook. Boys and men learn Torah and Talmud in the yeshiva for many, many years. They may also work as professionals as well, but will always wear a kippah, a beard perhaps, and be very mindful of rules involving touch and space with members of the opposite sex and non-Jews at all times. They may also dress more conservatively...always wearing long sleeves and neutral colors. Interestingly, Centrist Orthodoxy is able to thrive now mainly because of the increased religious tolerance that we have in America (where an employer may think twice about not hiring someone because of their kippah and beard) as well as the financial and moral support from other Modern Orthodox and non-Orthodox Jews who fund their yeshivas (and the men who learn in them full-time).
MissShona nailed it with her descriptions. Funny, athough the third description (Centrist Orthodox) is the one that describes me, I never thought of myself as centrist.

And she mentions the "financial and moral support" the modern orthodox and non-orthodox provide to the "centrist" Orthodox movement. This is correct, however, we define this "support" as the kiruv movement. It's not at all uncommon for an Orthodox Jew to invest literally hundreds or even thousands of hours of tutoring and mentoring to a non-religious Jew who is interested in raising the bar in their yiddishkite. Admitedly, there is a focus on wealthier non-frum Jews, knowing that they will feel a quid quo pro to respond in kind with hefty donations to the yeshiva, shul or Jewish organizatin of choice of their "Orthodox learning partner." I recall BrooklynBornDad in the past critisizing this methodology - perhaps righfully so. I would say on the surface, it could and should be scrutinized as a practice. But from a more practical standpoint, those non-frum Jews can';t take their money with them to Olam Haba. Hashem will not ask them "at the pearly gates" how much money they earned, but rather He will ask them what they did with that money. And gently encouraging a non-frum Jew to spend their money on supporting Torah learning is a win for the yeshivas, but it's just as big a win for the Yid giving the money and securing a good seat in the stadium of the afterlife.
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Old 06-03-2014, 12:07 PM
 
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Very interesting thread topic. As I read it, the word "frum" appeared several times. I hear this word used on a daily basis. Without exception, when one person speaks of another (unknown to community) the question is "Is he/she frum?" This term seems to carry a badge of honor or describe a pedigre that is above and beyond the ordinary Jew. I find myself wanting to jump in the conversation with the question: Why does that matter?" But I realize I won't understand the answer until I get a better understanding of the accepted definition? I re4ally dislike the use of that adjective as if a Jew needs some qualifier to be accepted as such.

Can someone explain the term and why one stands in judgement of another Jew with that term?
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Old 06-03-2014, 03:44 PM
 
3,962 posts, read 3,343,362 times
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Originally Posted by Davida36 View Post
Very interesting thread topic. As I read it, the word "frum" appeared several times. I hear this word used on a daily basis. Without exception, when one person speaks of another (unknown to community) the question is "Is he/she frum?" This term seems to carry a badge of honor or describe a pedigre that is above and beyond the ordinary Jew. I find myself wanting to jump in the conversation with the question: Why does that matter?" But I realize I won't understand the answer until I get a better understanding of the accepted definition? I re4ally dislike the use of that adjective as if a Jew needs some qualifier to be accepted as such.

Can someone explain the term and why one stands in judgement of another Jew with that term?
Frum simu means a Jew who is observing all 613 mitzvos. Observing the mitzvos is required of all Jews, so those who are not frum are not fulfilling G-d's wishes. And a Jew expresses his love for his fellow Jew by rebuking him if he is not of the mindset that the mitzvos are obligatory. Our sages tell us there is much greater reward in observing an obligated mitzva than observing an elective one.
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