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I can see why people do it, though. I was honestly so exhausted it distracted from my davening and reading. The exhaustion from not eating or drinking became a severe distraction. Just saying.
It makes one wonder how many Orthodox smokers wear a patch during shabbat/yom kippur in another loophole to get around igniting a spark.
This is one the places I find a violation of Yom Kippur. Some of the Orthodox give themselves a loophole when it fits them. No ingestion mean "NO ingestion" unless it is required to maintain life. Caffeine pills maintain addiction not health. You forgot to mention that many Orthodox take it as a suppository.
Halachically, it's totally permissible to take a caffeine pill. I've not seen a respected Rav posken otherwise. I think the majority of us in this forum and in the general public are simply entirely unqualified to decide if it's permissible or not, if it's moral or not, etc... You'll have to forgive me for saying this, but I ONLY take my halachic direction from those who are steeped in Torah. I'm not terribly impressed by modern humanist secular morality. It sounds nice that there is a Succah on the campus of Brandeis where Catholics and Muslims sleep in it at night, but what is the halachic consideration of that? Modern morality likely says that's a good thing, but it may be a terrible terrible violation of halacha, with ramifications that go deeper than we can imagine. Are we really ready as a Jewish people to ditch the Torah in favor of modern morality? (I know I asked, so I need to prepare myself that some of you will say that we are indeed ready to ditch, or change, the Torah to suit our modern view of morality)
I function under the method of allowing the experts to make the decisions, then I simply have to decide if I'm on a level to follow the proper derech, or if I think I might fall short.
As I said there are some in the Orthodox/Charedi communities who look for loopholes and create excuses. They choose which of the 613 mitzvot are important and which can be dismissed. Then there are those of us who have gone with nothing for the 25 hours and are called g-dless for not following the Torah to the letter. Hypocrites.
Quote:
Some Jewish leaders said that consuming anything — through the body’s traditional entrance or its exit — is against the spirit of the ritualistic fast.
“We’re supposed to do it the old fashioned way — I wouldn’t advise [suppositories],” said Rabbi Simcha Weinstein, a Hasidic leader.
As I said there are some in the Orthodox/Charedi communities who look for loopholes and create excuses. They choose which of the 613 mitzvot are important and which can be dismissed. Then there are those of us who have gone with nothing for the 25 hours and are called g-dless for not following the Torah to the letter. Hypocrites.
All an Orthodox Jew has to do is ask a shaila of their Rav. If he assurs it - don't do it. If he putters it, there's no reason in the world to think it's a problem. Kinda makes it all easy. We say the rabbeim of our time have Das Torah, so there's no reason to worry about hypocrocy. To call them hypocrites simply doesn't ring true - that's coming from a perspective not derived from Torah.
I don't mean to toughen my tone here in this forum, when we all worked so hard to bring our discussions closer to the middle ground. But calling a Rav's psak hypocrocy doesn't sit well with me. If my Rav says the Torah says caffeine pills are fine, I'm certainly willing to discuss the subject - but bring me a Torah proof that says otherwise. I'm not going to listen to conventional modern secular "wisdom" - that's a path that leads to deception and misunderstanding.
Halachically, it's totally permissible to take a caffeine pill. I've not seen a respected Rav posken otherwise. I think the majority of us in this forum and in the general public are simply entirely unqualified to decide if it's permissible or not, if it's moral or not, etc... You'll have to forgive me for saying this, but I ONLY take my halachic direction from those who are steeped in Torah.
Not quite accurate: you only take you're halachic direction from those
who you deem steeped in Torah
and with whom you agree.
It is a choice you make and for which you are wholly responsible.
Last edited by Jayhawker Soule; 09-28-2012 at 05:33 PM..
All an Orthodox Jew has to do is ask a shaila of their Rav. If he assurs it - don't do it. If he putters it, there's no reason in the world to think it's a problem. Kinda makes it all easy. We say the rabbeim of our time have Das Torah, so there's no reason to worry about hypocrocy. To call them hypocrites simply doesn't ring true - that's coming from a perspective not derived from Torah.
I don't mean to toughen my tone here in this forum, when we all worked so hard to bring our discussions closer to the middle ground. But calling a Rav's psak hypocrocy doesn't sit well with me. If my Rav says the Torah says caffeine pills are fine, I'm certainly willing to discuss the subject - but bring me a Torah proof that says otherwise. I'm not going to listen to conventional modern secular "wisdom" - that's a path that leads to deception and misunderstanding.
So its conventional modern secular thinking to follow the old traditional ways followed by 100's of generations. And you're part of the same group that purchases 1000's of chickens, spins them around your heads to soak in you sins and then break their necks. And see no problem in donating your sinful dead chickens to people you consider non-Torah following Jews. The H word!.
So whats next: Chicken Soup suppositories?
The next loopholes to cover: The poles and wire (eruv) around a town, the shabbos elevator, the shabbos goy....
I have 1 Rav I go to with my shailas. Sometimes i like the answer i get. Sometimes i don't. But the answers are das Torah either way, and I'm compelled to follow the psak I'm given. If the Torah says it's ok, who am I to say otherwise? As if I'm smarter than Hashem. Shame on you guys.
I have 1 Rav I go to with my shailas. Sometimes i like the answer i get. Sometimes i don't. But the answers are das Torah either way, and I'm compelled to follow the psak I'm given. If the Torah says it's ok, who am I to say otherwise? As if I'm smarter than Hashem. Shame on you guys.
I don't understand why you need to use hebrew and yiddish when its totally unnecessary. Why write "shailas" instead of questions? BTW das torah is Da'as Torah (knowledge of Torah) which is a professional opinion of the Torah. Psak (a ruling) is not written in stone. Posekim (ruling deciders) can change them as the world changes around them as long as it does not change Halacha. Maybe its time you read the Talmud from cover to cover. You are not a Rav and IMHO you will never be one. I'd usually use "lashon hara" but based on your numerous faulty posts "haatzaa shem ra" is more fitting and maybe you should read Tanakh with understanding to correct this.
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