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Old 05-12-2013, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
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Although we all have demands on our more left-wing and theological brethren, what responsibility do we more observant Jews have toward those who are more liberal than we are? Both as a community and as individuals?

It's fine for the Conservatives to protest against Reform endorsing patrilineal descent, for the Modern Orthodox to protest the Conservatives letting women be rabbis and count in a minyan, and for the Haredim to oppose the Modern Orthodox for not studying enough Torah and seeking too many kulot, but what about us who baruch hashem are following the Torah precisely as God wanted us to*? How can we work toward a united Jewish people?

*I hope the easily-offended can pick up on the hints of sarcasm
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:33 PM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
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What a wonderful question. I'm looking forward to others' ideas on this. It always makes my heart sink when we bicker amongst ourselves. I try to remember that there is always somebody more observant and somebody less observant, and I try to learn from more observant people.

Even if there is no specific commandment about this, I think observant Jews are performing an extremely valuable mitzvah by leading by example. And if someone is clearly off track, I am not surprised or offended when somebody says something about it.
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:57 PM
 
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You're a complex one, Usario. The key is to always be moving towards the Torah, and the rest will work itself out.
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
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theflipflop, that doesn't answer the question as to how you would promote Jewish unity with non-Torah observant Jews, beyond asking THEM to change and start observing more mitzvot. Surely Jewish unity is a two-way street?

I think you yourself are promoting Jewish unity, by posting on a message board where non-Orthodox Jews and non-Jews read and can learn about the beauty of Torah. By not openly showing judgement toward other members, your kiddush hashem encourages achdut.
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:54 PM
 
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It's a balance game. Torah, however, is not a take some leave some proposition. Rather, it tells us jews right vs wrong. So when I see my fellow Jew doing something antithetical to the Torah, you might imagine its hard for me to not give mussar.

I think it's a bigger statement on the person who takes the mussar poorly than the person with the chutzpah to give it in the first place.
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usuario View Post
theflipflop, that doesn't answer the question as to how you would promote Jewish unity with non-Torah observant Jews, beyond asking THEM to change and start observing more mitzvot. Surely Jewish unity is a two-way street?

I think you yourself are promoting Jewish unity, by posting on a message board where non-Orthodox Jews and non-Jews read and can learn about the beauty of Torah. By not openly showing judgement toward other members, your kiddush hashem encourages achdut.
In my experience, Usario, the people who walk around promoting "achdus" (unity) among the Jewish people are typically the same people who are responsible for the lack of achdus. An example:

A guy in my town (many I'm sure) davens at all the Orthodox shuls in the neighborhood. He stays just long enough at each to build relationships, but not long enough to be expected to pay dues. Then in the name of "achdus," he packs up and starts davening at the shul down the street. In reality, we all know he's just a schnor, and is unwilling to give financial support to any of the shuls in the neighborhood. But he spends a significant amount of his time and effort trying to convince people to daven at this shul or that, in the name of "achdus." Being a formal shul president, and understanding how the financials of keeping a shul's doors open run, I know that people like these are just "takers," constantly sucking the teet of the shul's resources but never fully willing to do what it takes to give back to ensure the spiriatual and financial well being of the places they daven.

Loving your fellow Jew means helping him to do what is right. It does not mean supporting him in doing whatever he pleases.
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:08 PM
 
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Another way to promote achdus is to promote tikkun olam, which we all know does not mean building front porches in suburban Atlanta neighborhoods, or filling the shelves of the local Catholic soup kitchen. Rather, tikkun olam is accomplished by helping your fellow Jew to reach his/her potential in the performance of the 613 mitzvahs.
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:45 PM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
In my experience, Usario, the people who walk around promoting "achdus" (unity) among the Jewish people are typically the same people who are responsible for the lack of achdus. An example:

A guy in my town (many I'm sure) davens at all the Orthodox shuls in the neighborhood. He stays just long enough at each to build relationships, but not long enough to be expected to pay dues. Then in the name of "achdus," he packs up and starts davening at the shul down the street. In reality, we all know he's just a schnor, and is unwilling to give financial support to any of the shuls in the neighborhood. But he spends a significant amount of his time and effort trying to convince people to daven at this shul or that, in the name of "achdus." Being a formal shul president, and understanding how the financials of keeping a shul's doors open run, I know that people like these are just "takers," constantly sucking the teet of the shul's resources but never fully willing to do what it takes to give back to ensure the spiriatual and financial well being of the places they daven.

Loving your fellow Jew means helping him to do what is right. It does not mean supporting him in doing whatever he pleases.
Hmmmm. I also see a few people that flit from synagogue to synagogue, although rarely under the guise of achdus. Usually it's because they purport to be too intelligent to listen to one Rabbi for very long and argue and try to carry lashon hora from temple to temple.

Some that promote achdus stay at one synagogue (and pay more than the fair share in dues and tzedekah, working more than one job to accomplish that), but can't stand to see ones they care about tear each other down. Their strength is trying to promote unity, even when they do not feel like the most versed Torah scholars. So, the example you gave above is one case, but that's the exception, rather than the rule, with the peacemakers of the world.
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:47 PM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
1,129 posts, read 1,430,863 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
or filling the shelves of the local Catholic soup kitchen.
TFF, you're on a roll. This is hilarious (although your point is well noted).
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,353 posts, read 24,084,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
A guy in my town (many I'm sure) davens at all the Orthodox shuls in the neighborhood. He stays just long enough at each to build relationships, but not long enough to be expected to pay dues. Then in the name of "achdus," he packs up and starts davening at the shul down the street. In reality, we all know he's just a schnor, and is unwilling to give financial support to any of the shuls in the neighborhood. But he spends a significant amount of his time and effort trying to convince people to daven at this shul or that, in the name of "achdus." Being a formal shul president, and understanding how the financials of keeping a shul's doors open run, I know that people like these are just "takers," constantly sucking the teet of the shul's resources but never fully willing to do what it takes to give back to ensure the spiriatual and financial well being of the places they daven.

Loving your fellow Jew means helping him to do what is right. It does not mean supporting him in doing whatever he pleases.
Should we count the amount of Mitzvot you violated just by this post. Three come to mind just by your statements:
Not to wrong any one in speech (Lev. 25:17)
Not to carry tales (Lev. 19:16)

Followed by:
To love all human beings who are of the covenant (Lev. 19:18)
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