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Old 06-08-2013, 06:09 AM
 
32,127 posts, read 33,044,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
For sure that's a factor. But religious Jews also typically want large families, and the sooner you start the better.
Religious Jews simply don't believe in using birth control and that is why they have large families.
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Striving for Avalon
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Hmm, the chart maker seems confused between Judaism as a stereotypically permissive socio-cultural identity and Judaism as a legalist religion. The Torah is does not condone pre-marital sex in the least bit.
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Amelorn View Post
Hmm, the chart maker seems confused between Judaism as a stereotypically permissive socio-cultural identity and Judaism as a legalist religion. The Torah is does not condone pre-marital sex in the least bit.
Very good analysis. The vast majority of Jews today do not use the Torah as their foundation for moral guidance. That's clear by the fact that something like 80% of Jews are Democrats ( sorry, I couldn't resist ).

The chart is showing progressive Jewish "values," not Torah values. The progressive values are very new on the scene to what a Jew "believes." But the Torah values not included in that chart go back in an unbroken chain for 3300 years and continue in strong force to this very day.
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Old 06-09-2013, 06:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Chava61 View Post
Religious Jews simply don't believe in using birth control and that is why they have large families.
That's a massive oversimplification of a very complex subject. You may be directionally correct, but overall your statement cannot be substantiated. Millions of religious Jews will use birth control at some point in their lives, and in in halachicly permissible ways.
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
The chart is showing progressive Jewish "values," not Torah values.
You're probably right about the chart, the main exception being the condemnation of homosexuality, which makes me think they might have asked a Reform rabbi or liberal Conservative rabbi sometime before the 1990's when mainstream acceptance of people born homosexual started to grow.
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Old 06-09-2013, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,538 posts, read 4,697,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
That's a massive oversimplification of a very complex subject. You may be directionally correct, but overall your statement cannot be substantiated. Millions of religious Jews will use birth control at some point in their lives, and in in halachicly permissible ways.
Under what circumstances is birth control permissible?
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:50 AM
 
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Under what circumstances is birth control permissible?
Ask your local Rabbi. The halacha is determined on a case by case basis in conjunction with medical advice and environmental/familial circumstances. There's no blanket hetter (permit) for birth control.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
Ask your local Rabbi. The halacha is determined on a case by case basis in conjunction with medical advice and environmental/familial circumstances. There's no blanket hetter (permit) for birth control.
Absolutely correct. It's not entirely uncommon for Othodox women, for instance, to take birth control pills in the first year or two after the birth of a baby. But a family should not make a decision like this without asking a shaila of their LORD (local orthodox rabbi dude).
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Old 06-09-2013, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Well, we're not in the process of making a decision. That was done several years ago after some medical problems with my fourth pregnancy. It seemed the logical thing to do given how difficult it was for me, but the doctor didn't say I couldn't have any more children. My blood pressure was dangerously high, enough that the regular hospital wouldn't take me but referred me to Duke. I also developed PTSD from how difficult the pregnancy was and all the related stress. I've recovered, but the idea of carrying another child gives me panic attacks. I was just curious if there was some kind of standard.
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Old 06-09-2013, 04:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pegotty View Post
Well, we're not in the process of making a decision. That was done several years ago after some medical problems with my fourth pregnancy. It seemed the logical thing to do given how difficult it was for me, but the doctor didn't say I couldn't have any more children. My blood pressure was dangerously high, enough that the regular hospital wouldn't take me but referred me to Duke. I also developed PTSD from how difficult the pregnancy was and all the related stress. I've recovered, but the idea of carrying another child gives me panic attacks. I was just curious if there was some kind of standard.
I know a Jewish couple with similar "issues" as yours, and their Orthodox Rabbi encouraged them to use birth control. But the birth control discussion was still very complex, because some types of birth control are much more halachically problematic than other types. I recall the friend told me the rabbi said the diaphram was the ideal birth control.
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