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Old 08-08-2013, 07:59 PM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
1,138 posts, read 1,433,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jews for Jesus View Post
Messianic Jews believe that you could still be Jewish and believe in Jesus because the Jews were originally God's chosen people but no longer unless you believe in Jesus Christ.
So, what's your purpose in this forum, then?

Last edited by 1+1=5; 08-08-2013 at 08:15 PM..
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Old 08-09-2013, 06:47 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,538 posts, read 4,693,137 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jews for Jesus View Post
Christianity started as an early Jewish sect. Messianic Jews are Jews who believe in Jesus as the Messiah based on from the Messianic Prophecies from the Hebrew Bible and Hebrew Scriptures. Messianic Jews are not Christians because they are not baptized, nor do they go to church or celebrate Christian holidays. Messianic Jews believe that you could still be Jewish and believe in Jesus because the Jews were originally God's chosen people but no longer unless you believe in Jesus Christ.
I'm sorry, but this is Christianity. Maybe not the way you define it, but it is the way other Christians (not Jews) define it. It's also very antisemitic. And I'm actually sensitive to your ideas about Jesus, but I can't swallow this. G-d has not, nor will He turn his back on the Jews.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Tampa Bay
65 posts, read 65,805 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pegotty View Post
I'm sorry, but this is Christianity. Maybe not the way you define it, but it is the way other Christians (not Jews) define it. It's also very antisemitic. And I'm actually sensitive to your ideas about Jesus, but I can't swallow this. G-d has not, nor will He turn his back on the Jews.
Please do not blame Christianity for that false teaching -- replacement theology practiced by many in christendom ok, that commenter ok, but Christianity, absolutely not, since our authority is the Bible which makes clear that the Jews' chosenness was based on love not merit, and Abraham, not even being circumcised, was asleep and doing nothing when that 1-sided unconditional covenant was ratified. The promises are unconditional & forever (though the enjoyment of them in the land were dependent on obedience, but the title still remains). And yes, all gentiles are called to convert...as are Jews; to turn from sin to the Lord. If Jews of rabbinic judaism really believed this Noahide stuff (obviously I as a Christian don't), it's disappointing that they are not out preaching it, b/c to me that shows lack of love for both their Creator and gentiles. At least with Muslims doing dawah I feel they at least really believe & care -- if not for me, then for their deity. Rabbinic judaism gives the impression that they don't care about His glory or our souls, only themselves.
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Old 08-09-2013, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,538 posts, read 4,693,137 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crossingbay View Post
Please do not blame Christianity for that false teaching -- replacement theology practiced by many in christendom ok, that commenter ok, but Christianity, absolutely not, since our authority is the Bible which makes clear that the Jews' chosenness was based on love not merit, and Abraham, not even being circumcised, was asleep and doing nothing when that 1-sided unconditional covenant was ratified. The promises are unconditional & forever (though the enjoyment of them in the land were dependent on obedience, but the title still remains). And yes, all gentiles are called to convert...as are Jews; to turn from sin to the Lord. If Jews of rabbinic judaism really believed this Noahide stuff (obviously I as a Christian don't), it's disappointing that they are not out preaching it, b/c to me that shows lack of love for both their Creator and gentiles. At least with Muslims doing dawah I feel they at least really believe & care -- if not for me, then for their deity. Rabbinic judaism gives the impression that they don't care about His glory or our souls, only themselves.
I'm not blaming anyone, just pointing out where the idea comes from, and it does come from Christianity. I understand that lots of people believe lots of things, but that doesn't make them true. I understand that not all Christians believe that, but that is not really relevant to the Judaism forum. This really isn't a problem for me...people keep PMing me about this, though, so I wanted to address it publicly.

As for the Jews responsibility to the nations. Who are you to say? Don't you think Jews have a hard enough time teaching their own people Torah without adding missionizing the gentiles? Does it really have to mean that Jews don't care about Gentiles? Let me ask you this...do you have children? If so, how much time do you spend teaching other people's children about living a healthy and full life? It would be wonderful if you had the time to take children who were not your own under your wing, but nobody is going to tell you you don't love G-d or humanity just because your attention is first consumed with the responsibility of your own children. Everyone has their purpose in life. For the Jews it is preserving their identity against overwhelming odds.

It's really no wonder Jews get so defensive. The constant attacks against our character is tiring.
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Old 08-09-2013, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,111 posts, read 54,613,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pegotty View Post
I'm sorry, but this is Christianity. Maybe not the way you define it, but it is the way other Christians (not Jews) define it. It's also very antisemitic. And I'm actually sensitive to your ideas about Jesus, but I can't swallow this. G-d has not, nor will He turn his back on the Jews.
Just for clarification, Episcopalian Christians (and others, but I am Episcopalian so I will speak for them) most certainly DO NOT believe that Jews lost their status as the chosen people when Christianity came along. Our POV is that through the Christ God made a covenant with those who chose to come to Him, especially gentiles, but in no way was God's covenant with the Jews EVER "cancelled".

I don't know why God does what he does and it's not mine to know. Or question.
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Old 08-09-2013, 12:47 PM
 
3,962 posts, read 3,345,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crossingbay View Post
Please do not blame Christianity for that false teaching -- replacement theology practiced by many in christendom ok, that commenter ok, but Christianity, absolutely not, since our authority is the Bible which makes clear that the Jews' chosenness was based on love not merit, and Abraham, not even being circumcised, was asleep and doing nothing when that 1-sided unconditional covenant was ratified. The promises are unconditional & forever (though the enjoyment of them in the land were dependent on obedience, but the title still remains). And yes, all gentiles are called to convert...as are Jews; to turn from sin to the Lord. If Jews of rabbinic judaism really believed this Noahide stuff (obviously I as a Christian don't), it's disappointing that they are not out preaching it, b/c to me that shows lack of love for both their Creator and gentiles. At least with Muslims doing dawah I feel they at least really believe & care -- if not for me, then for their deity. Rabbinic judaism gives the impression that they don't care about His glory or our souls, only themselves.
Please don't hold it against us Jews that we don't preach to the nations of the world. We have our hands full with roughly 85% of our own Jewish people not following our Torah. Once we get all the Jews onboard, we can start working on sharing the Noahide laws with the rest of the world.
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Old 08-10-2013, 01:40 AM
 
546 posts, read 566,756 times
Reputation: 635
Yes, it happens. I met a woman at services who first was a nun, then converted to Protestantism, then became Jewish.
The common thread is that most converts who are "drawn" to Judaism simply don't feel at home in the faiths in which they were raised.
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Old 08-10-2013, 04:56 AM
 
Location: US
27,989 posts, read 15,066,269 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Please don't hold it against us Jews that we don't preach to the nations of the world. We have our hands full with roughly 85% of our own Jewish people not following our Torah. Once we get all the Jews onboard, we can start working on sharing the Noahide laws with the rest of the world.

Israel was to be a light unto the nations...A guiding beacon...
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:20 PM
 
3,962 posts, read 3,345,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Israel was to be a light unto the nations...A guiding beacon...
And we will be, when moschiach comes. We need to clean up our own dirty house before we'll be ready for this task. Please be patient with us. And in the meantime, we thank you Christians for "greasing the wheel" by attempting to bring the concept of monotheism to the world.
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Old 08-10-2013, 09:33 PM
 
Location: US
27,989 posts, read 15,066,269 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
And we will be, when moschiach comes. We need to clean up our own dirty house before we'll be ready for this task. Please be patient with us. And in the meantime, we thank you Christians for "greasing the wheel" by attempting to bring the concept of monotheism to the world.

I doubt I am christian as defined today...I am merely a believer...that has Jewish ancestry back through his mother's side...
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