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Old 07-03-2013, 07:22 PM
 
Location: somewhere flat
1,375 posts, read 1,219,264 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Honest scholarship has shown that Paul invented the Eucharist and that Jesus likely never heard of this gnostic/occult practice. Clearly Jesus as a normative Pharissee would have been disgusted beyond belief if this had been practiced in his time.

And to a Pharisee (who were essentially no different than todays Orthodox Jews), its clear that Paul's writings and belief system in general prove him of being too low a caliber to have ever studied with the great Rabban Gamliel, who was perhaps one of the five most learned Jews to have ever lived. Paul was likely a convert, who converted under the authority of the same Sadduccees who employed him as a thug and kidnapper for the priests of the Beis Hamigdosh, who by the way were complicit with the Romans and all Hellinists. It's anti semitism for the church to claim the Pharisees were corrupt when truth shows that the Sadducees who Paul was connected to we're the corrupt ones. No small cooncidence that the Sadducees died out and disappeared over the next several centuries, and the world is filled with millions of Pharisees to this very day - mostly still being persecuted by anti Semites.
I agree with you about the Sadducees. I asked in another post on the Christian forum: "Did the Pharisees get a bum rap?" and was flabbergasted at the uninformed, close-minded responses I got. I believe that Jesus did institute the Eucharist, probably deriving it from "the cup of b'rakhah," the third cup in the Passover meal, and that early Christians may have incorporated it into their communal "love feasts." "Eucharist," in fact, means "thankfulness" or "thanksgiving." I guess it's possible that what it developed into could be different from what Jesus meant it to be. The varying opinions even today among Christians about its meaning and practice could be indicative of this. The rest I can't really agree with you about.

What about my messiah question? That has somewhat to do with the OP, from which we have diverged.
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:29 PM
 
Location: somewhere flat
1,375 posts, read 1,219,264 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
That tells you a lot about Christianity.
Well, the messiah is a Jewish concept and for me to even hypothetically suggest Jesus not being a messiah for the Jews, I could be branded as "heretical."
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Old 07-03-2013, 10:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulJourn View Post
Well, the messiah is a Jewish concept and for me to even hypothetically suggest Jesus not being a messiah for the Jews, I could be branded as "heretical."
I admire your courage. Clearly Jesus fulfilled none of the Jewish requirements of messiah.
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Old 07-04-2013, 08:40 AM
 
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Quote:
I admire your courage. Clearly Jesus fulfilled none of the Jewish requirements of messiah.
Nor was he a deity or a Rabbi or a King or whatever else Christians claim he was. In fact, even Christians can't agree on who or what he was, yet nobody thinks that's odd, considering belief in his superpowers is fundamental to the faith.
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Old 07-05-2013, 09:41 AM
 
Location: somewhere flat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
Nor was he a deity or a Rabbi or a King or whatever else Christians claim he was. In fact, even Christians can't agree on who or what he was, yet nobody thinks that's odd, considering belief in his superpowers is fundamental to the faith.
Though he disappointed Jews, he was successful in bringing the light of Abrahamic faith to the Gentiles. Even in his own lifetime, he reached out to Gentiles in Tyre and Sidon, and praised a Roman centurion (who had built, with his own money, a synagogue) for his faith.

I believe he did perform miracles, much like Honi the Circle Drawer and others of that time did.

As far as claims to his divinity, there are really no absolutely clear declarations, and many of these statements seem to have been added later. I have considered how Jewish believers in Jesus could possibly believe this themselves, because I think it would be anathema to them to believe that a man could be God. For the Gentile believers, who soon became the majority, of course there was really no problem. I've been pondering about all this but will say no more, for obvious reasons
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Old 07-05-2013, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,114,951 times
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Several of you mentioned the Messiah will re-establish the Kingdom of David, or something like that.

Why is that a good thing? I don't know much about David, but I watched part of a TV show about him a few days ago and they did not portray him as a nice guy. I guess Israel did increase in power and expand their territory when he ruled, but that alone does usually cause us to admire a person.

Why is David so special? Did he have any traits that you try to incorporate into yourself?
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Old 07-06-2013, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Long Island
1,720 posts, read 1,388,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Several of you mentioned the Messiah will re-establish the Kingdom of David, or something like that.

Why is that a good thing? I don't know much about David, but I watched part of a TV show about him a few days ago and they did not portray him as a nice guy. I guess Israel did increase in power and expand their territory when he ruled, but that alone does usually cause us to admire a person.

Why is David so special? Did he have any traits that you try to incorporate into yourself?
He will re-establish the house of David as the head of the Jewish monarchy. It doesn't mean that David will be king. As for why he's so special, it's because, according to our religion, God chose him to to head the line that would rule over Israel and eventually produce the messiah.

Last edited by JB from NC; 07-06-2013 at 08:34 PM..
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:10 AM
 
864 posts, read 733,797 times
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Quote:
Why is that a good thing? I don't know much about David, but I watched part of a TV show about him a few days ago and they did not portray him as a nice guy. I guess Israel did increase in power and expand their territory when he ruled, but that alone does usually cause us to admire a person.
For starters, TV shows are not the best place to learn about biblical characters.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,114,951 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
For starters, TV shows are not the best place to learn about biblical characters.
I disagree. Some channels like Military History or H2 have some very informative shows. I think the show about David was on one of those channels.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,609 posts, read 4,114,951 times
Reputation: 1399
Quote:
Originally Posted by JB from NC View Post
He will re-establish the house of David as the head of the Jewish monarchy. It doesn't mean that David will be king. As for why he's so special, it's because, according to our religion, God chose him to to head the line that would rule over Israel and eventually produce the messiah.
Thanks for the very clear answer.
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