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Old 06-10-2019, 11:09 PM
 
141 posts, read 35,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post

How about a yiddishke pinch?
Or this

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Old 06-11-2019, 07:46 AM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
1,130 posts, read 1,430,863 times
Reputation: 749
Yes. You're very wise, Rachel! I have since learned to deflect quite successfully. I'm a good hugger in some instances, but the last time I hugged a man other than my husband or son was probably 3 years ago. I now have a good "back clap and then move to the side" technique that is awesome!
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:52 AM
 
Location: U.S.A
53 posts, read 6,329 times
Reputation: 71
Natural spontaneous hugging is harmless. I don't usually instigate the action, but I don't show indifference if it is offered. The point that it is male or female is meaningless. In some cases it has been where the person is in need of emotional support. By refusing the gesture it could end with the person being humiliated and embarrassed. I would guard against that happening any day, over the harmless content of a simple hug.

It's not sexual, and has no place being compared to it. Many animals seem to benefit from being hugged.
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:08 AM
 
556 posts, read 54,304 times
Reputation: 350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob II View Post
Natural spontaneous hugging is harmless. I don't usually instigate the action, but I don't show indifference if it is offered. The point that it is male or female is meaningless. In some cases it has been where the person is in need of emotional support. By refusing the gesture it could end with the person being humiliated and embarrassed. I would guard against that happening any day, over the harmless content of a simple hug.

It's not sexual, and has no place being compared to it. Many animals seem to benefit from being hugged.

Hi, Jacob. I get what you're saying, but I don't think you might be getting this from a woman's perspective. Chana (the OP) described a situation in which she was working in a professional capacity. Read my response to her again, regarding that particular circumstance. It really does change everything.

I also think that there are men who, when working in a professional capacity, also may find themselves in similarly awkward and potentially damaging situations.
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:25 AM
 
Location: U.S.A
53 posts, read 6,329 times
Reputation: 71
I read back through it. . . I too am mostly speaking from a professional point of view. Although, in my case it would be different. People that we have intensively worked with to bring them from a state of shock and grief should be encouraged to express their emotions. If the emotion to show a type of bonding through a simple hug is expressed from them. There is absolutely no good way to refuse the offering. It could be the undoing of progress that we are desperately trying to accomplish.

What may be confusing is the type of hug. The one I am describing is a completely non-romantic support bonding.

However. . . I would have no problem hugging you, provided that you initiated the action. I do think as a (man) that it is improper for me to instigate the action. That includes initiating shaking hands with women. I just don't do it.

If Chana is uncomfortable with the action, and I am assuming this is within the medical community. She should find the kindest way of stating her feelings as to not cause damage to a patient. And I am not so sure there is a good way.

Hugging comes with the territory of some professions. It's up to us to find a way to wrap ourselves ( no pun ) around the idea to prevent a type of harm. If there is risk of them becoming embarrassed. I stand by this statement %100.

It is not worth it.

Watching the blood flush from a persons face is upsetting to me. More especially if I am the direct or indirect cause of it.

“Do not stand idly by while your neighbor’s blood is shed.” - Leviticus 19:16


Last edited by Jacob II; 06-11-2019 at 10:51 AM..
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Old 06-11-2019, 11:59 AM
 
801 posts, read 592,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob II View Post

However. . . I would have no problem hugging you, provided that you initiated the action. I do think as a (man) that it is improper for me to instigate the action. That includes initiating shaking hands with women. I just don't do it.
This.
It may sound sexist but I was taught to wait for the woman to initiate any physical contact. If she wants to hug, you hug; if she wants to shake hands, you shake hands; if she just wants to nod and smile then you do the same.
I was raised in a warm and loving environment but there was almost no physical contact, so after I moved out it took some effort to get accustomed to that. Now, a handshake or a brief hug seem pretty natural (subject to the above rule.)
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Old 06-11-2019, 03:26 PM
 
3,944 posts, read 3,337,959 times
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In the frum world, many poskim have ruled that a workplace handshake is permissible. Hugs are significantly more problematic, but embarrassing somebody is even worse. It takes great skill and practice to avoid these forms of contact in the workplace.
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Old 06-11-2019, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
56,005 posts, read 54,508,374 times
Reputation: 66354
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
In the frum world, many poskim have ruled that a workplace handshake is permissible. Hugs are significantly more problematic, but embarrassing somebody is even worse. It takes great skill and practice to avoid these forms of contact in the workplace.
Ha, I remember reading once about a man who, when he thought he might be exposed to handshaking contact with a woman in the workplace, would grab a cup of coffee in one hand and a stack of papers in another, and then kind of sheepishly shrug and nod because his hands were too full to extend a handshake. Very clever.

I was surprised that the Boro Park Satmar man for whom I worked offered his hand the first time we met. I did not expect it. Many years ago, an observant Jewish coworker explained to me that he did the workplace handshake so as not to appear rude but that he wasn't truly comfortable with it, so I knew.

At an event for the doctoral program at my daughter's university last month there was a young fellow in the program who wore a yarmulke, so when my daughter introduced us, I did not offer my hand but just did the nod-and-smile bit. He seemed relieved and smiled nicely in return.

I've had exposure to Jewish culture, though, after 40 years of working in NYC. Many are simply not aware of the rules. I would not want to embarrass someone, either.

I'm not one to hug people randomly, especially in a workplace setting, so that's not a problem.
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Old 06-11-2019, 05:14 PM
 
392 posts, read 122,366 times
Reputation: 517
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45 View Post
Unless people wear a "Do Not Touch" sign, we don't know they do not want to be touched and hugged. We assume they are like us and like contact from another person.
Why? Is this normal in your crowd? It isn't in mine.

In my shul, some (mostly not shomer shabbos) part of the congregation considers hugs to be normal. I don't. This is probably (compared to them) because of my age. It is also because I am always carrying a weapon which I do not care to reveal to most of them.

Why does anyone assume that others like to be hugged? Who gives them the right to do this, barring obvious consent?

How about keeping your hands to yourself?
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Old 06-11-2019, 09:31 PM
 
Location: small Southern town balabusta
1,130 posts, read 1,430,863 times
Reputation: 749
I definitely appreciate you giving the benefit of the doubt when we are talking about someone needing a hug. I should clarify that 8 out of 10 times, it seems to be a harmless request. I don't work with people that are grieving or in shock most of the time. I definitely don't want to embarrass someone. However, without trying to be dramatic, there are men that definitely count on women being "kind" and allowing a hug, only to have it turn into a full-body mash. Distant relatives are the worst. "Hey, we're fifth cousins, so this is okay". In that case, I don't mind embarrassing someone by turning away. I'm done allowing it to make people feel better. I do see your point about things, though.







Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob II View Post
I read back through it. . . I too am mostly speaking from a professional point of view. Although, in my case it would be different. People that we have intensively worked with to bring them from a state of shock and grief should be encouraged to express their emotions. If the emotion to show a type of bonding through a simple hug is expressed from them. There is absolutely no good way to refuse the offering. It could be the undoing of progress that we are desperately trying to accomplish.

What may be confusing is the type of hug. The one I am describing is a completely non-romantic support bonding.

However. . . I would have no problem hugging you, provided that you initiated the action. I do think as a (man) that it is improper for me to instigate the action. That includes initiating shaking hands with women. I just don't do it.

If Chana is uncomfortable with the action, and I am assuming this is within the medical community. She should find the kindest way of stating her feelings as to not cause damage to a patient. And I am not so sure there is a good way.

Hugging comes with the territory of some professions. It's up to us to find a way to wrap ourselves ( no pun ) around the idea to prevent a type of harm. If there is risk of them becoming embarrassed. I stand by this statement %100.

It is not worth it.

Watching the blood flush from a persons face is upsetting to me. More especially if I am the direct or indirect cause of it.

“Do not stand idly by while your neighbor’s blood is shed.” - Leviticus 19:16

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