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Old 07-16-2013, 08:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB from NC View Post
I'm Conservative, and I fast. I know quite a few others who do as well, but I can't speak for the movement as a whole.
Probably a plurality of "opinions" for Conservatives, right?

The orthodox rabbis all hold that it is obligatory for those who qualify to fast to keep this fast. This fast is equally required as the Yom Kippur fast, and the penalty for not keeping the fast is spiritual excision from the Jewish people. Denomination or movement is irrelevant.
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Probably a plurality of "opinions" for Conservatives, right?

The orthodox rabbis all hold that it is obligatory for those who qualify to fast to keep this fast. This fast is equally required as the Yom Kippur fast, and the penalty for not keeping the fast is spiritual excision from the Jewish people. Denomination or movement is irrelevant.

The reason I asked the previous question was because growing up we never fasted with this holiday. We only fasted for Yom Kippur. That is all I knew about was the one fast of Yom Kippur too. Rather that was what I was told was important and the other fasts were for the ultra-Orthodox.
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by veggienut View Post
The reason I asked the previous question was because growing up we never fasted with this holiday. We only fasted for Yom Kippur. That is all I knew about was the one fast of Yom Kippur too. Rather that was what I was told was important and the other fasts were for the ultra-Orthodox.
There's no such thing as "only for the Orthodox," although I'm not surprised you were told that. The Torah and its mitzvos apply equally to all Jews regardless of denomination. It sounds like you were raised "tinok shenisba" (google that - its not easy to translate), and you are likely not liable for your transgressions of Halacha.

FYI, we Jews are all required to fast 7 times a year.
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
There's no such thing as "only for the Orthodox," although I'm not surprised you were told that. The Torah and its mitzvos apply equally to all Jews regardless of denomination. It sounds like you were raised "tinok shenisba" (google that - its not easy to translate), and you are likely not liable for your transgressions of Halacha.

FYI, we Jews are all required to fast 7 times a year.
I have no idea what your talking about: "tinok shenisba"

I'll have to Google it.


Edit: Just Google the term and your full of it~!
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:18 PM
 
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Quote:
he reason I asked the previous question was because growing up we never fasted with this holiday. We only fasted for Yom Kippur. That is all I knew about was the one fast of Yom Kippur too. Rather that was what I was told was important and the other fasts were for the ultra-Orthodox.
#1 Tisha B'av is not a holiday. It will be a huge holiday when Moshiach comes, but for now it's a day of mourning.
#2 There are no special rules for ultra-orthodox (whatever that means). There are rules for Jews, called halacha. Those who adhere to halacha have been labeled orthodox or ultra-orthodox. This doesn't change the fact that the Torah and Mitzvos were given to all Jews.
#3 Fasting on Yom Kippur is a Torah prohibition, a pretty tough one, considering that punishment for breaking it is Korais--being cut off.
#4 Fasting on Tish B'av is a Rabbinical prohibition, dating back to the destruction of the first temple. At that time, all Jews followed halacha (orthodox or ultra-orthodox). Halacha doesn't change. Judaism never changed. One thing to consider is that the destruction of the Temples ushered in a long, drawn out exile with ALL Jews suffering to this very day. In fact, so much are we suffering that we don't even know what we are missing.
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
T
#1 Tisha B'av is not a holiday. It will be a huge holiday when Moshiach comes, but for now it's a day of mourning.
#2 There are no special rules for ultra-orthodox (whatever that means). There are rules for Jews, called halacha. Those who adhere to halacha have been labeled orthodox or ultra-orthodox. This doesn't change the fact that the Torah and Mitzvos were given to all Jews.
#3 Fasting on Yom Kippur is a Torah prohibition, a pretty tough one, considering that punishment for breaking it is Korais--being cut off.
#4 Fasting on Tish B'av is a Rabbinical prohibition, dating back to the destruction of the first temple. At that time, all Jews followed halacha (orthodox or ultra-orthodox). Halacha doesn't change. Judaism never changed. One thing to consider is that the destruction of the Temples ushered in a long, drawn out exile with ALL Jews suffering to this very day. In fact, so much are we suffering that we don't even know what we are missing.

What I mean by ultra-orthodox is like the Chabad and those groups.
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Old 07-16-2013, 09:35 PM
 
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What I mean by ultra-orthodox is like the Chabad and those groups.
I know exactly what you mean. Chabad and "those groups" are doing exactly what ALL Jews are obligated to do, without picking and choosing the mitvos they find easy or rational. If you're indeed Jewish, your ancestors were also part of "those groups" before they joined a watered down version of Judaism, which isn't Judaism at all.
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iwishiwerethin View Post
I know exactly what you mean. Chabad and "those groups" are doing exactly what ALL Jews are obligated to do, without picking and choosing the mitvos they find easy or rational. If you're indeed Jewish, your ancestors were also part of "those groups" before they joined a watered down version of Judaism, which isn't Judaism at all.

To me, they seem like a "cult group".
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by veggienut View Post
To me, they seem like a "cult group".
Put down the pipe. Orthodox Jews are regular people. It's clear you've had no real exposure to Torah observant Jews. Like you said before, we're all just Jews.
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:29 AM
 
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To me, they seem like a "cult group".
Well, this "cult group" has been around since the revelation at Mt. Sinai and is not going away anytime soon. If you are, indeed, a Jew as you claim to be, you are part of this "cult group", whether you like it or not. This "cult group" is just doing what Jews are meant to be doing, following the Torah, that is. The same laws that apply to them, apply to you. Sadly for you, one or more of your ancestors was remiss in passing along the traditions, obligations, and beauty of Judaism and of feeling privileged to have been chosen to bring to the world its moral code.
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