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Old 08-08-2013, 09:59 AM
 
3,962 posts, read 3,344,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
That's ridiculous. As ridiculous as being a Messianic Jew. A "messianic Jew" is a Christian. (Someone had to say it.)
Sometimes Messianic "Jews" try to sneak the term "Messianic Jew" in the middle of a string of other types of Jews who are actually Jewish, thinking it will just roll of the tongue. Nope. There's not one single Jew at City-Data who accepts these people as Jewish. They are free to practice their religion any way they like, just like anybody else. But to claim to be Jewish. Well... that's like saying a frog is a horse. Just saying it does not make it so. And especially if it's the frog claiming to be a horse.
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:31 PM
 
Location: USA (dying to live in Canada)
1,034 posts, read 1,561,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Sometimes Messianic "Jews" try to sneak the term "Messianic Jew" in the middle of a string of other types of Jews who are actually Jewish, thinking it will just roll of the tongue. Nope. There's not one single Jew at City-Data who accepts these people as Jewish. They are free to practice their religion any way they like, just like anybody else. But to claim to be Jewish. Well... that's like saying a frog is a horse. Just saying it does not make it so. And especially if it's the frog claiming to be a horse.
According to halakha, to determine a person's Jewish status (Hebrew: yuhasin) one needs to consider the status of both parents. If both parents are Jewish, their child will also be considered Jewish, and the child takes the status of the father (e.g., as a kohen). If either parent is subject to a genealogical disability (e.g., is a mamzer) then the child is also subject to that disability. If one of the parents is not Jewish, the rule is that the child takes the status of the mother (Kiddushin 66b, Shulchan Aruch, EH 4:19).[13] The ruling is derived from various sources including Deuteronomy 7:15, Leviticus 24:10, Ezra 10:23.[13] Accordingly, if the mother is Jewish, so is her child, and if she is not Jewish, neither is her child considered Jewish. The child can be considered Jewish only by a process of conversion to Judaism. The child is also freed from any disabilities and special status to which the father may have been subject (e.g., being a mamzer or kohen) under Jewish law.[14]
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:57 PM
 
3,962 posts, read 3,344,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jews for Jesus View Post
According to halakha, to determine a person's Jewish status (Hebrew: yuhasin) one needs to consider the status of both parents. If both parents are Jewish, their child will also be considered Jewish, and the child takes the status of the father (e.g., as a kohen). If either parent is subject to a genealogical disability (e.g., is a mamzer) then the child is also subject to that disability. If one of the parents is not Jewish, the rule is that the child takes the status of the mother (Kiddushin 66b, Shulchan Aruch, EH 4:19).[13] The ruling is derived from various sources including Deuteronomy 7:1–5, Leviticus 24:10, Ezra 10:2–3.[13] Accordingly, if the mother is Jewish, so is her child, and if she is not Jewish, neither is her child considered Jewish. The child can be considered Jewish only by a process of conversion to Judaism. The child is also freed from any disabilities and special status to which the father may have been subject (e.g., being a mamzer or kohen) under Jewish law.[14]
You've already admitted your mother believes in Jesus (i.e., she is a non-Jew). Therefore you are a non-Jew.
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:37 PM
 
Location: USA (dying to live in Canada)
1,034 posts, read 1,561,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
You've already admitted your mother believes in Jesus (i.e., she is a non-Jew). Therefore you are a non-Jew.
Blah blah. You are not a real Jew yourself because you break God's law judging others.

...do not favor the poor or show deference to the rich; judge your neighbor fairly...You shall not hate your kinsman in your heart. Reprove your neighbor, but incur no guilt against your kinsfolk. Love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD. [19:16-17]
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Old 08-08-2013, 06:23 PM
 
3,962 posts, read 3,344,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jews for Jesus View Post
Blah blah. You are not a real Jew yourself because you break God's law judging others.

...do not favor the poor or show deference to the rich; judge your neighbor fairly...You shall not hate your kinsman in your heart. Reprove your neighbor, but incur no guilt against your kinsfolk. Love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD. [19:16-17]
None of that applies between Jews and non-Jews. Find me a Halacha that says the way I'm treating non Jews like yourself, and we can talk.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:56 AM
 
Location: USA (dying to live in Canada)
1,034 posts, read 1,561,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
None of that applies between Jews and non-Jews. Find me a Halacha that says the way I'm treating non Jews like yourself, and we can talk.
So you are saying that the Hebrew God wants the Jews to treat the "gentials" unequal and worse than to the Jews? Sound more like the God in the Quran. Since you claim to follow Halacha, why don't you stone people who violate the Sabbath?

You are making us Jews seems violent, intolerant and bad people. No wonder why Richard Dawkins said that the New Testament is a big improvement from the Hebrew Bible and God.
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Old 08-09-2013, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,538 posts, read 4,692,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop View Post
Sometimes Messianic "Jews" try to sneak the term "Messianic Jew" in the middle of a string of other types of Jews who are actually Jewish, thinking it will just roll of the tongue. Nope. There's not one single Jew at City-Data who accepts these people as Jewish. They are free to practice their religion any way they like, just like anybody else. But to claim to be Jewish. Well... that's like saying a frog is a horse. Just saying it does not make it so. And especially if it's the frog claiming to be a horse.
I disagree. A Jew is by blood, not belief. And who the heck cares what someone believes anyway? You know, all these conversations trying to clearly label who is and who isn't what reminds me of humans and the animal classification system. Just when we think we've got it all figured out we come across the platypus.

Not everyone fits into a box. Neither does G-d. Our ability to understand the infinite is necessarily colored by our limited ability to understand.
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Old 08-09-2013, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,538 posts, read 4,692,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jews for Jesus View Post
[b]So you are saying that the Hebrew God wants the Jews to treat the "gentials" unequal and worse than to the Jews? Sound more like the God in the Quran. Since you claim to follow Halacha, why don't you stone people who violate the Sabbath?

You are making us Jews seems violent, intolerant and bad people. No wonder why Richard Dawkins said that the New Testament is a big improvement from the Hebrew Bible and God.
There is obviously scripture that talks about how Jews are supposed to treat fellow Jews. Not charging interest on a loan comes immediately to mind, but I'm sure there are many others. But you're thinking of it from a very backwards perspective. Imagine your brother wanted to borrow money from you. Would you charge him interest? Surely not (at least, I wouldn't). Now what if a stranger or someone totally unrelated to you wanted to borrow money. Would you charge him interest? You'd be a fool not to.

And the little bit I've read about stoning for breaking laws...well I think there is a lot more to it than what meets the eye. I've read rabbis that talk about the quality of the witnesses to the violation. First there have to be at least 2-3 witnesses. And then the witnesses have to be of such upstanding character that their testimony would be valid, making it really hard for a stoning to actually take place. And even harder for it to be done to an innocent party. I'm sure flipflop will correct me or elaborate on that.

JforJ, you have a lot of learning to do before you are ready to cast stones yourself. You should really stop all this condemnation of Jews before you really understand what it is you're saying.
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Old 08-09-2013, 11:58 AM
 
3,962 posts, read 3,344,225 times
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We don't stone people since the destruction of the Beis Hamigdosh and the absolution of the Sanhedrin. That's why we don't stone people who violate Shabbos today.

Nothing happens randomly. Hashem controls all and every action that comes into our lives. I've been wondering the last week why we in this forum have "merited" to have a J for J come into our lives. I kept wondering what have we done wrong? It occurred to me this morning. We've done nothing wrong. Perhaps this person was brought into this forum by Hashem to clearly show Pegotty, who is struggling with her Yiddishkite and considering belief in Yushke, what happens when a Jew leaves their heritage and joins a Chrstian heritage.

Not one Jew in this forum, or in the world for that matter, is going to accept any J for J as a member of k'lal yisroel. They are outcasts for a reason. It appears many of the Chrstians feel the same way, but that's their business.

I hope our esteemed J for J poster will continue to tell us all about his ways and beliefs. I believe with perfect faith that a stable Jew is impervious to all Jesus belief. And for a weakly educated Jew, truth always reigns supreme.
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Old 08-09-2013, 12:00 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
195 posts, read 212,357 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pegotty View Post
A Jew is by blood, not belief. And who the heck cares what someone believes anyway?
And this, in short, is what is wrong with modern Judaism. It is racist. And without any basis in the Hebrew Bible.
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